Episode 27

March 03, 2021

01:32:00

From Self Care to Slut Shaming

From Self Care to Slut Shaming
Women Bridging the Gap
From Self Care to Slut Shaming
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Show Notes

As a closer to the second season of Women Bridging the Gap, we have our first listener guest! Franziska joins Alexandra and Lenya to discuss slut shaming, sexual vs sexualized, and daily affirmations. Alex asks if “slut” is as bad or worse than “bitch”, and Lenya advocates for “slut” to be removed from the lexicon. Listen in to get all the details and consider for yourself what language is acceptable, then let us know about it on our [Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/665585734389981) or on [our Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/women_bridging_the_gap/). Franziska is a brand architect, integrated marketer, and author. Franziska specializes in brand development and visibility strategy for brands in entertainment, technology and wellness. Early in her career, she spent time in Detroit working in business development for some of the most notable entertainment and consumer brands in the U.S., including The UPS Store and Smithfield. Franziska believes in building strong brand identities woven in culture and is passionate about empowering the youth to achieve their dreams. Franziska is a fellow listener and reached out to be on the show and talk about slut shaming. If you have a topic you want to discuss on the show, anonymously if you like, send an email to: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) Links: [Car Accidents And Cowboys blog post by Alexandra](https://alexandraditalia.tumblr.com/search/car+accidents+and+Cowboys) [Franziska’s new blog Everybody Hates LA](https://www.everybodyhatesla.com/) -- Please **rate and review** this podcast if you enjoyed it; reviews greatly help new listeners see this podcast is worth their time. You can find Women Bridging the Gap on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/women-bridging-the-gap/id1521503012) and [Podchaser](https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/women-bridging-the-gap-1304390). **We want to hear from you!** Let us know how you’re speaking about these issues with your friends. **Let us know what topics you want to hear!** Join the [Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/665585734389981) Email us at [[email protected]](mailto:Lenya.Ale[email protected]) You can find us at: [WomenBridgingtheGap.com](https://womenbridgingthegap.com) Or on Instagram: * Find Lenya at: [@Lenya_goddess_the_one](https://www.instagram.com/lenya_goddess_the_one) * And Alexandra at: [@a_xandra17](https://www.instagram.com/a_xandra17) and [@thewritingleap](https://www.instagram.com/thewritingleap) * And the show is at: [@women_bridging_the_gap](https://www.instagram.com/women_bridging_the_gap/) This podcast was edited by Brendan Hutchins from Podcast Advocate. Go to [PodcastAdvocate.Network](http://PodcastAdvocate.Network) or find him on [Twitter @PodcastAdvocate](https://twitter.com/podcastadvocate) to learn more.
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Episode Transcript

FRANZISKA: Your podcast via Shane Lainez husband. So ALEX: Oh, FRANZISKA: I actually worked together. And Shane, you know, when you all first started, he was like, Hey, there's this podcast, everybody listened. And I just got so immersed and I continued to hit him up every single week. And I'm like, just listen to the podcast or I'll text him and we'll shout about it. And ALEX: chef, but Shane doesn't. So he's been right. So he's your person, but he doesn't listen to anymore. Does he? You know, my partner FRANZISKA: I don't know. LENYA: if he, yeah, he does. Cause he says he does, but he doesn't FRANZISKA: I think he does because I'll talk about some of the stuff that you guys talk about when you chat and he makes it seem like he knows exactly what you guys are talking about. So I don't know. LENYA: maybe from another room, but now. ALEX: I swear like Eric I, at first he listened and then he just stopped listening. And then he's it's just weird to hear you in conversation. And. He's cause I hear you talk all the time. I'm LENYA: you can. My son doesn't listen. FRANZISKA: Well, I think a lot of it is probably do. Cause you know, sometimes you mentioned them, right? You mentioned your son and you mentioned your husband's and everything. So for them it's well, I live with you and we're together and it's kind of that weird dynamic, but Hey, I'm a dumb stop. ALEX: you know, sometimes I think it makes me a lot freer. Like I think our podcasts got a little better when we stopped worrying about who is listening, because I don't think my dad listens all the time or at least he doesn't tell me whether he does or not. But I do feel like my internal editor, which looks a lot, like my dad is not like standing on my shoulder saying you're a moron, you know? So. FRANZISKA: No, it's real. It's real. And you know, so I am trying on that same thing where you stop having a little person on your shoulder saying I'm done, you know, like critiquing you and judging you before you even do anything. So I have this blog that I've been trying to launch since October, and it's done, and it's like in a staging environment. And it's my way of saying, let me just tell my truth, you know, let me just say whatever I want to say without anybody judging me. And I haven't pushed it live. Cause I'm like, I'm so scared ALEX: Oh, you have to just, Oh, this is our goal today. She's going to push live at the end. What's it about? Wow. FRANZISKA: so it's called everybody hates LA and it's just a sad tire, you know, but everything that's happening about self love. LENYA: right? You are still talking to the right group, ALEX: I'm going to, I'm going to listen to, I'm going to read your blog every LENYA: every single. FRANZISKA: I love it. You know, but it's funny cause I love ballet. So, and I know you two probably don't know anything about me, but I'm from Germany, born and raised small town of Jeremy, a little village, you know, we had the one McDonald's and like 11 villages around us. And I always was obsessed with LA. I loved it. I loved watching award shows. I loved watching TV. And so I always told people I would make it to LA and then I finally did, but you know, What you have as, you know, the image of America, you know, what you see in Germany versus when your actual here it's a lot different, right? I mean, people, I mean, just the judgments, the racism, everything that's happening. I mean, it's just crazy. And coming to LA, I mean, I love it. It's my favorite place in the entire world but it's sort of like a satire, like a funny way of just talking about self-expression, you know, you know, even like dating in LA and just how like the Peter pan syndrome comes in there and all that stuff. So, yeah, I know it's kind of, it's kind of funny. ALEX: Or are you going to, is yours going to be talking about like special, like unique places about LA or are you going to be talking about what people like? I do think people love to hate LA and I do think I might. Be a little bit more in that LENYA: you are one of them. ALEX: I'm here. Yeah. Well, I do. but I have to say part of the reason why I'm happier in the pandemic is I don't drive and you know, I'm just happier not being in a car. I get to eeriest, really excited being on a train. I get absolutely miserable. The idea of getting in a car. So, LENYA: Listen, if LA had public transportation, like really good public transportation, like the kind that could actually take you somewhere without, you know, the FOSS, because I mean, I don't drive at all, so I have to take public transport and it sucks. You're so bad. If it had a really good public transportation system, LA would be just about near perfect because it has. It has all of the right little things, you know, you've got all these great neighborhoods. You've got fantastic museums. I mean, there's, you would not be able to have the Getty in New York. FRANZISKA: Yeah. LENYA: You know what I mean? ALEX: Well, all right. I want to slow down. Like New York has amazing museums. New York has like some of the best museums in LENYA: No. But New York has the best museums ever, but big picture, the Getty. We're all in campus. And how, I mean, there's not a space that you can stand in. Any part of that campus where you don't see something that's beautiful. FRANZISKA: Yeah. ALEX: No, absolutely. I totally agree. And I, you don't get taco trucks and you don't get LENYA: then a box. ALEX: But you also don't get brownstones. LENYA: Yes, ALEX: or Victorian row houses, if you're thinking of San Francisco and you don't get, you know, so I don't know what little Fran, like where you were if you were near Berlin or, but for me, like what I love about New York and San Francisco and even DC or Chicago, like any of those cities is that you could wake up on a Saturday. And just say, I just feel like stepping out my door and seeing what will happen and you can do it, be a walking and you can go from neighborhood to neighborhood. And it's the serendipity. And since cities are always changing, you discover like in San Francisco, which is small. We would find, we would say, Oh my God, let's go find a new neighborhood. And we would just go find some like random, like little, tiny micro neighborhood that was just starting to emerge. And then you could window shop or find a place for lunch and you wouldn't have to look on your phone to find a restaurant, you would just go and happen upon things. And in LA, I mean, there's so much I love, but it's a planning city. Unless you're a driver and you want to say, I'm sure if you moved down here, when you're 20. And you're just, and you can just drive around all day and just, you know, and back in the seventies, before the crowds, I am sure there was a little bit of that magic of getting a convertible. You can drive from the beach to the mountains in an hour and 20 minutes, you know, and have that you didn't. In 2020, well, not in 2020, not the pandemic, but in 2019. And in 2022, it, you know, the idea is that you can spend 45 minutes going five miles. And I, for me, FRANZISKA: Yeah. ALEX: makes my life very small and unhappy. Like it makes me very unhappy. but I want to hear all the things enough about, I just went on for so long. I'm going to cut half of that out. This is like where you're going to be like, Oh my God, they're so edited. Where, so Fran, what do you love? This is so aware. When did you move here? FRANZISKA: moved here three years ago. And I actually, I moved to downtown. So when you talk about traffic, I used to drive from downtown to gosh, play a Vista and it would take me, you know, an hour and a half. And I never got into accidents until I moved here. So it resonates No, but I've lived in downtown. I've lived in Culver city. I live in Hermosa beach now. So. Going to the South Bay was something that I never thought was so beautiful, but I can go outside and I'm a block away from the beach I can walk around, you know, so it's a lot easier because I don't drive as much anymore. And of course, within pandemic, I'm working from home. So I get to walk around, take my bike roller blade and just explore the city a little bit, you know? So I feel very fortunate that I've made the move ALEX: People love it down there. People really love it down there. FRANZISKA: The South Bay bubble, nobody ever leaves. And that's why I never wanted to go there because I loved. Downtown. I love the arts. I love you walk outside and it's, you know, the clubs and the restaurants and the, you know, the taco trucks and the people. And there's always something, you know, but there's something just really peaceful about her Mosa beach. That's just really, it's like the Oasis almost of LA, ALEX: Well, isn't it kind of the quintessential, I mean, was it a little bit when you were in Germany thinking that's what LA was because everybody kind of shows the beach. I mean, the glow, the glorious part of LA everybody makes it seem like it's Santa Monica. FRANZISKA: I think mostly I was thinking like Hollywood honestly, cause I, I always kind of, you know, you think about the big billboards and the big buildings and the little boutique stores and just everything that's in LA you know, even like Abercrombie or Hollister. All of my friends still to this day are like, you're wearing that. I want it, you know, get it to me, but of course you're here and you're like what's happening, but no, I don't know what I was expecting, but certainly what I got. Out of, it was nothing like what I was thinking about even, I don't know, but it's beautiful because you have so many different people and you go, you know, you drive half an hour and you feel like you're in a completely different world. Right. And from all the ethnicities and the restaurants and people that you meet, it's just so interesting. And the influence and the history, I don't think people know enough about, you know, I think. LA is a city that a lot of people come to sorta for selfish reasons because they're like, I want to be the next star. I want to be the next big person. I'm going to use it to elevate myself, but they don't realize all the different people that live here and have grown up here that are trying to make the city what it is, you know? And so I think there's a huge discrepancy there that people should talk about more, you know, because you have so many people, so many families, you know, even Inglewood and different people that I've met that just have lifted for so long. And they're like, I feel invisible. And also the people are getting attention, but what about me? You know, and it's so interesting and beautiful and tragic at the same time. I don't know. It's just cool ALEX: Well, no, there's a whole hidden. City in Los Angeles that the world wasn't fi you know, even just, I remember, I don't know what it was. I was, it was when, so Eric and I, you know, got married and then got divorced and now we're back together. But when I was driving for the marriage license, yeah, it wasn't meant for marriage. So we did it for four years and it was, I'm not meant for marriage. So, but when I was going to get the license. was interesting. What was interesting is I don't know why it was like some down South LA address. And I just drove Vermont, like I think all the way down, but I was in an area that I had never been, would never have reason to go. And it was fascinating and it felt like being a tourist in your own city where you could really sort of feel like, wow, like this is fantastic. And that was really just so grateful. I sort of. I didn't want to go to the Beverly Hills courthouse because I just knew parking was going to be a bad and it was going to be traffic. And I was like, I'll just go to this other random place. And it was an adventure and that was exciting. So, no, I totally see that. So do. FRANZISKA: So I work in advertising and account management. And then I have my own PR firm. So I do publicity for up and coming artists, production studios, some female entrepreneurs and their little businesses kind of a little bit of everything. ALEX: Well, that's absolutely fantastic. LENYA: get into bet black FRANZISKA: Yes. Yeah. Well, it's funny because when I first moved out here my friend saw a post in a Facebook group and was like apply now. And I sent my resume into a random person. They're like, Hey, can you come to their carpet tomorrow? And I was like, yeah. And I took the day off and I just went in there and BT. And so, you know, with their work as started there two years ago. And she's just such an amazing group and such an amazing experience, but yeah, I've worked there for a few years and then when they have actual award shows, you know, I get to help out with, as a press escort. So, you know, I'm talking the talent down, helping with the press, helping set up sometimes even being in-house production. It's just overwhelmingly amazing. It's just, yeah, it's just incredible. ALEX: So you're another polymath so you do a hundred different things. FRANZISKA: Yeah. I feel like you have to, you know what I mean? It's. As many things there are wrong with America, it's also there's an ability for you to do anything that you want to put your mind to. And there's so many different things that you can do here. So many different opportunities, it's just deciding which ones. And so yeah, everything from award shows to press to production I try to kind of touch it all. LENYA: Well, I guess we'll be we'll be talking offline FRANZISKA: Yeah. LENYA: some things. ALEX: Yes, you guys have connections, LENYA: Yes. I have some things. ALEX: I want to ask though. So what is your concept as a German moving to the United States and moving to one of the, one of the metropolitan areas in the United States of our work-life balance? Because what I what you just said, which I. I understand, but you're like, yeah, don't we all? And I was like, well, we all don't I mean, I do, but I struggle, even though I enjoy everything I do. I also realized like, what part of that is my addiction to work? Is it true addiction that I can't just stop? And I sometimes forget how to do nothing. And and there's something, you know, you know, Like the sweet life, you know, in Italy, you know, everything moves a little slower, but you know, or just the idea that Europeans or Western Europeans tend to be emphatic about four to six weeks off a year. And in the United States, there's a group of people. Maybe urban elites who do that. And the general person gets two weeks a year and they take it to see family or they take it for holidays and then they do a four day cruise somewhere, or they go to the islands or they go to Mexico or they do the one week trip to Europe, but they don't get rest or restoration. so how is it looking in or have you become. Or did this just jive with you more when you were born? You're like, I just want, I want that. FRANZISKA: You know, I don't know. I mean, I should say that. So I grew up in Germany, but my family's from England. So I was sort of a third culture kid in Germany growing up under like English customs, which their work life is a little bit different as well. But certainly in Germany, you're right. It's very relaxed, right? Your home life is a lot more important than your work life. You go to work to make money, to, to have a home, but to live your life and go on vacation. Right. You know, our stories when I grew up there, there was a lunch hour. Like you couldn't go to the store from 1130 until one, 1:30 PM because it was just closed and that was normal. And then you're off between four and 5:00 PM and then you go home to your family. It, wasn't uncommon to leave and have coffee with somebody for two hours and just. Ponder about the world, you know, talk about regular things that aren't work-related because work is just not the norm. And it certainly doesn't define you. So I'm sure that's probably what you've seen in Italy as well. I mean, I've never been there, but I tend to be a workaholic in the sense that I find a lot of pleasure and also my identity in the work. And I've been trying to sort of work on that because it's not healthy. But at the ALEX: Wait a minute. Let's actually, let's take the, let's parse that out because we all say it's not healthy and it's really trendy right now to not say it's healthy. So let's just examine that. I understand that working like not sleeping well is not healthy. I understand that not eating well is not healthy, but why is, if it, if I'm not seeing this is true, but if one's hobbies, what one gets paid for? What one is passionate about? All happens to be in the same arena why do we assume that's bad? I just want to, at least, because I do agree with you, but I guess I want to slow down that assumption because I've been questioning myself too, but I don't want to give up anything. FRANZISKA: yeah, true. Now I think the hustle is sexy, right? Having passion is sexy and it's considered amazing and good for you. What's not healthy about it is, you know, not taking the time. If I just sat down and I wasn't able to read a book without checking my phone every two minutes or my email, you know, I embarrassing me enough. So I live in a studio apartment. I might work in my desk, which no, my desk is right here. My bed is right in front of me and I will go to the bathroom and I will check my email and bathroom, you know, like that's not healthy. ALEX: No. I know. FRANZISKA: I think having, you know, if you do it in a way that you integrate your work and your home life, you know, in a way like where yes, I have a hustle and yes, I'm going to work hard for an unfocused, but at the same time, I can still have it different part of me that I can go on a walk or I can do whatever I need to do to take care of myself. That's not related to work. So I might watch a movie because I love movies. But I don't have to watch a movie to learn something, to do something about work. You know, I think it's really important to sort of separate those two and I don't know how it is for you, but that's kind of how I try to do it and just find different ways that I can still have a social life and I can still have different ways. My entire identity is it dependent on my function or my productivity, right. Because that's when it becomes not healthy. ALEX: Yeah, I agree. LENYA: I dunno because you know, I've always been, I've always been one of these people that my, my personal life and the things that I like to do are more important than work. And, but, and people feel a certain type of way about that. So I have let it be known amongst the company that I work with now that I do not do anything for them before 12 o'clock because before 12 o'clock I'm working out, I will not answer the phone. You know what I mean? There is, I just, and once I started realizing that I can, I'm going to prioritize all of these things, then, you know, But then I feel better, but like a lot of people feel a certain type of way about it. I mean, I have some pushback from one of them. ALEX: But I actually, I would call working out, especially the way you do it, but even the way I do it working to some degree LENYA: yes. Because I work out for several hours. Yes. And there's a part of me that would love it. If I could get paid to do this. ALEX: And also, right. And so there's this concept of paid work, life, work life like essence of life, and then leisure, relaxation. I w because working out, because we're all not farmers or gatherers or hunters, and we need to move our body in false ways because we don't move them in everyday ways. One would argue that isn't restoration time necessarily. Although some people might feel restored doing it, but since everybody should be doing some form of exercise, even though you work out for longer than the average person, I would argue that isn't solely personal. And the other thing is since, I mean, I know you're not necessarily competing now, but when you were a competitive. Lifter. I was like, just because you don't get paid for it doesn't mean it's not your work because it's that same concept of we talked about this with the episode with Ken day about that concept of what success really means, you know, and we have to narrow aversion because if we, you know, thinking of the Hollywood level, there are a lot of really successful actors out there who you've never heard of. And there are a lot of really successful producers. Who you've never heard of. So when somebody says, well, what have you done that I've seen? I'm like, who the hell cares? You know? I mean, I'm not an actor, but if I were an actor saying that it would be like, who the hell cares? Like I pulled down a paycheck, do you know what I mean? LENYA: I sustain my life. ALEX: Right. I might be an unsuccessful celebrity, but I am a successful actor. And that's the difference. Right. And so. Linda, you're amazing. Cause you've always drawn good boundaries, but I still think of that as more like when I'm doing my list, when I do like working out, it's not in the pleasure list necessarily, though I get pleasure from it because you know reading a book Is pleasurable Although I can make that into work too teach it or maybe gonna is for me to write something or, you know, and then for me, I get paid a hundred dollars or something when I publish a story in a literary journal, but then still is, it's more than important to my identity than the job. Do you know what I mean? And FRANZISKA: Yeah, ALEX: so I, yeah, like it's hard to know because what's worse. It's also like, how do we define work? FRANZISKA: right. LENYA: I did find that working out time is my time. That's the main time. And if it's the time where I can sing to myself, play whatever music I want, do what I want. You know what I mean? Like the dogs, aren't my priority. It's just. Me, so that, I guess that's where I draw the line there. cause I don't have a lot of like the, at me time, FRANZISKA: Yeah. Yeah. And I would agree with you too. I mean, working out for me is like my self-care it's my time to process it. It's my time where I'm just taking care of myself and looking at my strength. Right. I've never competed. So I definitely respect you. And I do remember Shane showing this, all of your photos, he was very proud. You did amazing. Which is incredible. I would love to do that. Right. But just that like persistence and just like how we did it and the strength that you showed us, just incredible. And. And that sounds, I would say, yes, that's worked because that's just beyond anything like that I can ever do back to your boundary setting. I mean, I mean, telling your work and saying I have foundries and I'm not going to be reached until a certain time. That's still important and that's so amazing that you did that. Right. And that you're like keeping to it, but are they really not respecting that? I mean, how are they treating different at work or anything? LENYA: Because I make my sales, but it's unpopular. mean? If it's unpopular, I make my sales. Cause I, now it's six o'clock and I'm still, I still have my store open and I'm still available to my customers and I'll be available to my customers till nine. So I have that, but there are people who are on like, you know, they're on there from seven o'clock in the morning. I'm just uh, me, know but it's ALEX: and there is an element of exclusivity I mean I am not I'm not necessarily I'm going to say I think I'm a good boundary Senator but Lenny is going to laugh I say that. FRANZISKA: I'm Not either. ALEX: Well, but that's because a lot of stuff excites me, but I actually do say I do set limits on my time because similarly, I don't say no to many projects because I just get so excited. My friend Connor, who lives in Cuba, she just sent me this freelance writing opportunity. And I'm not freelance writing anymore. I mean, I haven't done that in many years and I'm just working on like creative writing and then the podcast and then the law school and the coaching. So all those FRANZISKA: things, but ALEX: but I read the pit, like the, what they're looking for and I'm like, Oh my God, I should do that. And I had to like, come down a minute and be like, Alexandra. There is no time in your day. You're LENYA: I was like, can you fit this on your plate? ALEX: No, no plate. So I'm getting better at evaluating that. Like I have, that's where I don't set good boundaries because I get really excited. And I just recently had a session with Danny Bernstein, the astrologer, and she's that's the Sagittarius in you? Because she's it's more, it's freedom. It's more, it's freedom. but like Lenya, I teach mostly evening. At the law school. And I requested, and mostly because so many people are parents, they're like, it's they are grateful. They're like, Oh you're taking the night class. I'm so happy to have the day And then I pushed back when they give me a 9:00 AM class and say I don't want a 9:00 AM class And part of that is that I am a night owl But the other part of that is is that I do tend to my schedule works best when I write in the morning And work out. After writing. So anywhere between 11:00 AM and one of depending on the day, and then, you know, I'll be at school like at school, like from two to 10:00 PM, you know, and then I work a lot of weekends, so it all comes out in the wash. Now, do I sometimes break that I have students with a paper due on Wednesday. And in COVID and I'm teaching evening students. So they all work full time. So am I meeting students tomorrow morning? Like at nine 30 and then I'm teaching a workshop at 10 and then teaching another workshop at noon. Yes, I am. But that's because I'm teaching at a law school where most people work. So Sunday's the day they're free. So I was like, well, you know, like that's fair. I will find a day. Like I have some days marked out where it says no school and I not do any school on that day. But, you know, I do think I'm actually really good at setting boundaries where I'll tell students, like they say, Oh, can we meet at nine? I'm like, no, like 9:00 AM doesn't work for me. You know, it has to be in the afternoon. And then sometimes I'm like, okay, if it has to be a morning, it can be Sunday morning, and this is how you set the boundaries, Fran. I usually, when I stand up in class, I tell everybody what I'm doing, what my goals are for myself in the semester. And they usually so intimidated by my to-do list. Cause I was like, do not complain. You're busy. Cause I will win this. I will on. And what's nice. Is that. One, I think they ask in my struggle models. If I, I let them know, like I totally failed this week on what I wanted to get done. And here's why, where are you guys then what you guys want And so it, I just use my life as the teaching example, successes and failures, you know, but how are you, so how do you manage with building a career? At the agency say, and then running your own PR agency on the side, like how does that work? Cause those are close together in theme. FRANZISKA: They are they're different enough for close enough. You know, weirdly enough, I think the pandemic helped me just because I'm able to. I get to decide when I'm productive and when I work the best and I'm able to sort of pivot from my meetings and different things that are happening very easily. I think setting my own schedule helps a lot versus other people who, with the pandemic, they can't do that. You know, they're just, for some reason, you know, they can't sit on their computer and work all the time and that's okay. You know, cause everyone has to kind of figure out the best way that they're going to work together. But. You know, I think prioritizing, I have a self journal that every single week you set goals and every single day, you sort of set your schedule and your goals and what you have to accomplish versus what you can accomplish. If you want to, you know, affirmations are super important. ALEX: can we just wait a minute? I love that. Cause I do the same thing. I have my list and I even and I'm going to do a shout out like Lauren, you know who you are. Like, we talk a lot about like lists, like you have your to-do list, but you need to do be practical and then you can be aspirational because otherwise you go to bed every night, feeling like a failure. I totally get that affirmations. Talk to me about affirmations because there's some mixed I'm a bit of a follower of Lacey Phillips and about manifestation. And what I love about her work is that she doesn't, she's not against manifests, like saying affirmations, but that isn't necessarily like for her, with rewiring your brain, like the best way to go. I do some affirmations. Like I do a gratitude practice in the morning. named three things I'm grateful for. And I try to have one thing about myself. So it's like not just all outwards, FRANZISKA: it So pretty I love the color coordination LENYA: what I'm grateful FRANZISKA: I love yours Yours is much prettier than Every night No LENYA: works of it's not information Some of you know grateful for this today Uh I FRANZISKA: to see ALEX: I feel like every man who's listening to this podcast right now and we're talking about daily affirmations, there's an eye roll. And so I wanted sort of at least say let's talk about this, it's this, you know, does work for you FRANZISKA: But but it's so important I mean so for me personally Um Being from being from England moving to Germany Germany was always known as that British kid the weird kid from England has the English customs and you celebrate Christmas on a different day than we did in Germany And it was fine And I loved you know I had a lot of friends not can stuff moving from Germany to America and then being the German kid which was like an identity crisis So a lot of I'm like the third culture kid in Germany I'm the third culture kid in America I you know a lot of times it's the assimilation and it's also like an imposter syndrome a woman being successful Um a lot of men are intimidated A lot of pomade partners are intimidated and you know with my goals and what my ambitions were and There's a lot of limitations And I think self doubt that I try to work through every single day and affirmations and manifestations I think they were always the part of my life but I wasn't intentional about them until a few months ago And turned my life saying every morning I wake up YouTube video that I listened to And I and I'd say them you know with a knows It's great It's amazing And I can say I don't know I just I can talk to myself ALEX: do too FRANZISKA: yeah Yeah But you know just telling yourself I'm beautiful or I am I'm enough and I'm worthy or even something you know like I'm strong when I'm at the gym right Or lifting weights or something It's good It's it's taking intentional time to breathe You know a lot of times we're so busy we're so busy with useless things where we don't sit down and say wow I'm alive Wow Like I'm actually sitting here and we're having a conversation Wow You know let's talk about that miracle that like our body is still functioning after all of our worst times And after all of the mean things somebody might have said to us years ago right We're still here and we're still living our life in the best way and and foot forward Um and yeah I think that a lot of men are probably like ah that's not really working but a lot of my friends you know I'm always like Here's his information video listen to it You know they won't always admit it but I think that it's you know I think society is being a little bit more accepting of they're leaning more into it Um and just living being vulnerable you know it's it's something that wasn't always accepted before but I think now with COVID with everything else with just how everything is changing I mean people are losing their jobs People are vulnerable all the time things suck each never going to change ALEX: You talk about vulnerability and I think that's the thing that people lose as they age And it's something that we should So we're word authentic I use the word authentic all the time but you want to be authentic and vulnerable And I'm really I'm sort of working on that But again it was that weird when Eric and I broke up for the year at when we were 40 When we got back together the one thing we really liked is that we had both spent a very vulnerable year apart and we liked all the growth And actually with all the horrible grief there was this amazing kind of joy that both of us felt And then when we were back together because we're really we're just meant to be together We were like we're going to work really hard not to lose not to this vulnerability and we in everyday life we kind of do and then we have to sort of call herself back to Like we're not being vulnerable with other You know we're bickering a lot We're doing this every day World is getting in the way like we're not being vulnerable at all with one another And it's fascinating How builds Self-esteem like how you would think that vulnerability does the opposite because you're going to allow yourself to get hurt or But what it is is super empowering you're just you know, you're moving through the world as you, and you're great. And it's you're right. I mean, that's a beautiful FRANZISKA: Yeah. Yeah And I think Lenya one of your goals I think of the new year's podcast I think one of your goals was I what exactly you said that it was like you I'm going to speak my truth and I'm going to like speak up more and really just be myself And I remember texting Shane and I was like Oh my God I just had a lightning bolt moment Cause part of that is being vulnerable Right And okay with yourself because Are all of your decisions and everything that you've done so far has gotten to this point And so in being vulnerable although it's terrifying and scary my heart is like skipping right now It's it's still this beautiful thing where like wow I said and it's okay And now we can move forward You know it's LENYA: This whole podcast for me is about has about being vulnerable and about like being able to say what I want to say and not be afraid to say it because in the to self edit Right Alex Alex would go you know you're you that you're going edit that out and he's not even even gonna leave that in And then like you know and then I had this mom my wall you how So you know like I know that that whole thing about Ellen and leaving that in was a big thing because like I'm in the industry And I mean I not that I think she's gonna listen but you know somebody yeah And she might feel a certain type of way but FRANZISKA: you know LENYA: what She knows who FRANZISKA: she Did ALEX: like you're going out there shaming her You're just saying it on our podcast which is reserved for these conversations It is. LENYA: it's also my truth Like not like yet I'm lying I'm not uh you uh throwing you know what I mean Like it this is what FRANZISKA: this is how Period Yeah It's your experience and it's your narrative and you know I think it's fine Now let me ask you too This is there anything that you edited out of your podcasts that you you would ALEX: That's good LENYA: Hmm Because in the beginning there were lots of times we'd take out whole paragraphs an episode on where I took out something that I I I felt like it would've difference to leave in. ALEX: think there was there was stuff FRANZISKA: that I ALEX: could have been beginning blurring the line between my teaching and FRANZISKA: me ALEX: teach it LENYA: Yeah There's often times you say stuff like that You'd suck The times Alex would be like Oh I don't know You know the the I have to be careful cause at ALEX: You know No. I mean, it's a law school. They understand my first amendment but I am a teacher I have responsibility to my students and we have a lot not everybody is Um At the law school and I have always prided myself on and I've always been kind of surprised that people who are religious feel comfortable coming to me people Uh right on the right wing of the right things politically like feel free to come to me to talk about school but to talk about problems they might have with another professor at school And I really feel honored that even though I'm so open about who I am that they don't Think I'm going to judge them And I that's true And I and I'm certainly not going to judge them in school because it's not my right to judge them in school Now am I going invite them into my house for dinner party No Like know where a different student might graduate And I might say we might have a friendship after this and that's my right to do so but in school everything's equal And I'm very clear on that with the podcast It made me a little bit nervous that then I'm sort of amplifying my voice And also if we were started so much of what we talk about so on a sociopolitical basis Might somehow start to get entangled with school policies And I'm worried that I might have my opinion and maybe my opinion of the current administration of the school And I just I drew a very thick line while I found my zone I over edited myself on certain things about w What makes feel honest and what doesn't And then honestly as a white woman Fran I have my head, which is always level, you know, and Lenny always says we're all racist. And I also I believe that Right And and it's partly it's just your reptilian xenophobic brain right Like so it's just it's not even something you're just born with it And then you have to use your brain that makes us different Right And and and And so in that concept I you know there is an I am a lawyer so there is this like I'm trying to find the other side and I want to sort of see this And it's hard you know when you're talking about race and it was the summer and everything was so heightened And I w I really believed and I believe this at everybody ha should be able to express their frustrations And there lot Expression of frustration that was going on And and a righteous things too but everything you know everybody listening to this who is a student mind is going to laugh but I was like life is a spectrum And you know we have this thing And then at some point things were more frustration and they were going to have to like after their frustration the dust settled like okay like but what's practical and what's realistic and what's And how do we move forward And that's kind of what the PO the podcast came out of But there times where there were things there were times where I might've wanted to say you know but this or I did say but this and then I was like Oh I that in the scared after me Like and so and I Um LENYA: come from ALEX: Yeah I also feel like I do feel that um I feel that people who've been listening to the podcast know me There is a little bit of trust in there So if I speak there's a depth that they that I can get the benefit of the doubt if I if I were to see something that would upset somebody there could be a conversation but it I I can't tell you how many times, right before we released the first one where I was like Lennon, we should just not do this. Are you kidding me? What are we doing? FRANZISKA: changed lives Let me tell you lives Let me tell no but you know I think there's there's certainly that part of credibility where like well we've had this many seasons we've done this many episodes where you know my opinion we can talk about it There's sort of that persona where you know you have people like me who are like Hey we're friends and we've never met until now You know But at the same time it's also you know you have a world in and you have people that are so afraid to speak I mean You know I have a hard time you know speaking to my parents truthfully with everything happening in the world because our opinions just widely differ and there currently is just no commonplace So so a lot of people just don't say anything and then they don't have a place to to tell their frustrations or when they're confused and you know what do I Google What can I say What can I ask my friends What conversation can we have What's too much What's not enough Am I being offensive Am I being racist How do I know my biases Right And there's a lot of Personal also there I think it needs to be that conversation with somebody else to to to help that you know and I think certainly this podcast is giving that voice or at least a different perspective that maybe people haven't thought about that you know it would make me nervous And nervous but good LENYA: It's so funny because like all of the things Alex You know worried about And the things that I would remove would be things about celebrities that I didn't want people ALEX: work in the industry you work in the industry LENYA: Because I work in the industry and I know that there are people that listen that are in the industry Right And I know especially with some of the things that I took out would get back to those people Like you know what I mean So she's just compared to like I don't want to blur the lines FRANZISKA: my political LENYA: And the school and this and that And here I am like I just don't want Brad to know that I know FRANZISKA: it feels like LENYA: the opposite like FRANZISKA: so let's just take Pitt's name LENYA: out of this ALEX: that was really funny And you should have left it LENYA: but but ALEX: know FRANZISKA: I know I you I you telling me the secret I ALEX: Put it in FRANZISKA: I LENYA: Or or better the next time Shane and you go out for like a hike If he is I know that sometimes those those those times aren't his time Right And I'm trying not to be that wife but you know cause he he spends a lot at his computer I don't you haven't seen you come and see his the I said to him he needs to invite some of his work friends over to sit in the office with him while he works and pretend FRANZISKA: like they're in it'll just be me standing behind it being No but I would love that I've been asking him and look that's all going to hike Well we'll go somewhere off coffee It'll be beautiful LENYA: Yeah The last time he went and saw you in Santa Monica he came back with sidecar donuts with for me So I was so FRANZISKA: on three fine I know so sweet that his car got towed happy pounds I put on three pounds Are you kidding me LENYA: When you're weighing yourself at a competition pounds getting rid of three FRANZISKA: pounds in two hours that possible LENYA: healthy But ALEX: also that I mean Lenny is barely five feet tall so also three pounds LENYA: It's Uh yeah I'm I'm very I'm like five feet just five feet So it was just like he he brought home this whole like sleeve of donuts and sidecar FRANZISKA: is like LENYA: one ALEX: I have say if I had that I would ask Eric to go for a ride drive by himself I would get in bed alone with the donuts and Netflix like some British murder show and I would be the happiest person FRANZISKA: on planet LENYA: I'll email but yeah ALEX: I so Fran I mean I am an Anglo I am want to it's I've always wanted to live there Maybe Bristol maybe London we walked across we did the Dales way walked Northern England 86 miles in five days and want to leave And then we were in this small village of and there We met of course Eric's a big cook So of course we go into every butcher store in everywhere we travel And he was in the butcher store looking at the meat He started talking to the butcher and the butcher was like I'm so sad because my son has left for London and I have nobody to take over the butcher shop And the ne like Eric was at lunch trying to like seriously think if it was worth it for him FRANZISKA: like I was ALEX: like are like I was what will I do God FRANZISKA: because ALEX: is I write mysteries write LENYA: Why ALEX: never met you That's why FRANZISKA: I was faded to you ALEX: So what's as like as a woman in advertising I guess I'd like to bring this up since you're working in advertising And even been a while since that show's been on it's hard not to think like even just I mean advertising is I don't know what it's like LA but New York advertising is very cutthroat. And um LENYA: though Is it cause like FRANZISKA: complain about that Um Oh what do I want to about my job here No I I'm really lucky I mean my agency that's the people are amazing and it's a huge family and I'm so grateful and and everything I will say um when I first was um a place for the women and there was a place for men And were rooms that you couldn't say something it You weren't invited Um even though project or my campaign Um a lot of times you know my men counterparts would get the credit for it or would have to present my or my presentations Um a lot of times the blame was shifted There were you know there's sort of um different types of projects that are more right than others Um and there's a history where only allowed to work on those and not women Um so when I first started I sort of raised a stink about it and I'm good at what I do Right I'm committed I'm talented I'm skillful And I worked really hard to make sure what I do is you know it's it's of quality Um and I the longer I've worked there and I I sort got more of a voice and I and able to sort of push through some a lot a lot easier it sort of them a little bit Um and at least it's it's it allowed me to sort of pave way for other people come in and and be in those rooms always like that Um I don't think it's as cut throat as it was as it is in New York Certainly not but there are you know different No, just have a culture. It's different ways that you go to them for, you know, some are more creatively driven, some are more counter of, into more strategy driven. And so depending on where you go, you're going to learn different things. You're and do different projects Um but overall you know I'm super lucky It's a lot more teamwork oriented now Um but ALEX: Do you FRANZISKA: like that ALEX: you do you experience you know and it's always such a hard question to ask because it's like in your current employment so you can answer um but what kind of sexism or microaggressions have you been facing in your workplace? You're younger than we are. I'm always curious what's out FRANZISKA: The biggest thing is just I think saying something and somebody else saying the same thing you know Oh that's you say it it's nothing Um sometimes it's just giving direction to certain people And especially at my age I think it's sometimes harder to Give direction or lead certain things where somebody is not going to take you as seriously because it's coming from you versus somebody senior older Um really lucky in my in in my in my place right now where I think it it happen as often anymore Uh but that could be because I've been there for a few years now So you know times people know me a little bit better Uh but I have been at different places of employment where just Totally Like it didn't even matter as if I wasn't even in the room you know like I could say something you know it could be like Hey you know and I'm an account So genuinely what I say comes from the client it comes from sort of the brief and it was like it doesn't matter what your opinion is I'm not going to do it deal with it You know just totally like if it was totally invisible is incredibly hard Um I think to just work through but You know again I have a lot of really great mentors so I think through a lot of those conversations and just kind push forward person you know like um working with different partner agencies for example you still have the same goal Of course everyone wants to make the best possible thing for your client But you know a lot of times it's I think I I just via email even or um you know text messages or something like that So do work with LENYA: it's male dominated so that one of the main the that would be you know FRANZISKA: and it's is it Japanese company? Yes Yeah but it's interesting because Our you know female clients are so innovative and so amazing and they're really pushing the boundaries more than I think they've which is great Um but I think there's certainly something there but you know I haven't always experienced a lot of that sexism I know I've had a few bosses Who've been with clients where even though they let the they weren't allowed to speak in a room Um was with certain you know men or whatever that just in their culture weren't anything LENYA: peanut Yes I used go ALEX: when you got I was meeting her wine bar I didn't know She had gotten peanut and she met me at a wine bar and we were sitting down and she like I mean it was an LA then her and there's LENYA: buttercup and she's yeah she's hanging out with Shane They they got into a little bit and so been um FRANZISKA: been hanging LENYA: out as much FRANZISKA: Oh They're just it could be LENYA: Oh God I know I wonder about the dogs of the world What are they going to do when the pandemic is over And they've been so used to having their FRANZISKA: disaster ALEX: talked about it I'm actually concerned I'm concerned I think I'm saving I'm putting money together for you know at least go a few days FRANZISKA: week ALEX: Have um and we'll try to ease them into it I mean I but I don't know I mean because it is and I'm also kind of hoping maybe like at Eric's work at shadow machine they allow everybody to bring in So And kind of hoping that my work would also allow FRANZISKA: us to do ALEX: one of those I might want to edit out because then I'm like but they're too uptight So they're not to I'll leave that but FRANZISKA: I used to have a roommate who had a golden retriever and I brought the golden retriever to work with me And it was so stressful cause he was still puppy and it just would continue to bark and I'm like I just can't take it be amazing ALEX: there are rules Like Eric actually said the reason he doesn't take Harry is because sometimes when Harry really likes another dog he wants to be so he barks like we don't allow otherwise they don't they're not So totally get that I mean and I understand if allergic I I understand all that stuff I do know that I F I work I'm the director of the writing center And sometimes people come in who are unhappy about their writing or they're stressed out And so I just feel like FRANZISKA: the Yes ALEX: an argument like as to why the writing center a dog Eric me he's like but probably FRANZISKA: be happy ALEX: and like And that's Chihuahua LENYA: See So I have you know friends we have two chihuahuas and it's the little girl the one that you haven't met FRANZISKA: she's not pleasant Oh I feel like peanut was like cubit a little bit scared But he loves me He let me pet him for a little bit then I think he was a little bit scared just kind by himself LENYA: He won't bite you or anything that right That's cause peanut was on the for awhile will Yes ALEX: I have to ask Okay So when we were talking about this and we're thinking about topics we were talking we were thinking we would talk about talking slut-shaming FRANZISKA: I know haven't brought it up once LENYA: Oh my ALEX: I mean we're at we're at the hour Mark which but been an amazing but I I wanna I want to talk about such I mean we haven't talked about it and I think it's an important topic LENYA: I think it's very important for us as women to talk about ALEX: it's gender Fran How old are Yeah perfect gender split conversation it's it's changed probably like could we could we nerd just a minute Like what we defining FRANZISKA: right now ALEX: talk about it LENYA: Well because I don't really that I I just feel like that word is a word menus when label a woman ALEX: I feel like heard in a row I have not heard men use the word slut although that But I time like I think it's a word that women use both a sword FRANZISKA: and a shield ALEX: I hear it more but that's why I to actually talk about like do we think it actually just means prom promiscuous Do we think it is a fashion like a mode of fashion Do we think that it means prostitute that you're you're that there's money exchanged because You know when I was in fourth slut me Like that I thought it knew it was probably wrong but that's what I thought it meant then you know alum dressing like slutty just had a slightly cheaper connotation Um so I'm just sort of or does it mean pro promiscuous LENYA: It means permit promiscuity And when you're dressing slutty you're dressing as if You're asking maybe for that type FRANZISKA: really I don't so I'll use it with my friends and it's not a bad thing because if you're saying slight it's just like a cute like You look good You know like you're showing a little bit of skin but it's fine But I will say you know when I first moved to the States I had a Playboy pencil case and it was Playboy and Germany was like the thing it was cool Cause you know your body's beautiful was like self-expression And I actually had a teacher like it was like two weeks after I moved here so I could barely speak English And a teacher came up to me and was like asking me questions like Hey are you sleeping with other boys You have this pencil case It's sort of asking for you're asking come up you know like with it So I never thought that's the word slut was like a bad thing until taught to me um by this teacher that I had you know and of course I thought it was like the coolest thing and you know look at me with my hip Um and in that sense it was it was taught to me that it was like well no Playboy and sled It's sort of you're asking for You know sexual favor So you're asking to be promiscuous and you're sort of putting saying that you're easy Um and that sense it's Right So I would you know I would say sort of a promiscuous but also I've had boys I I've had men called me a slut before Right Because I might say no at the bar or because I might not want to talk to them for whatever reason And I think it's just being mean and just trying to put other people down Uh but think that women have used it as a kind of taking the term back and using it as something that they can use as a weapon So what you know like just some people each other bitches or whatever It's like no it's my term Now strength and not for weakness LENYA: Well some guy called a slut and this would have been about a bar Cause I I mean I don't think I was wearing my wedding ring what make If I tell want to talk to you And he was like he was like Oh you don't have to be such a slut I was like am Bye FRANZISKA: am LENYA: you ALEX: am I am but still but not you LENYA: I don't know Look I just think that that word the it's just a word that that shouldn't ALEX: For me you're and I'm I mean I don't disagree But what's funny is I am much more triggered by the word have a friend I mean and I use I do actually use the word um and I usually it as a joke like satirical joke a little bit when I say Oh I'm going to be the bitch but I've used it in other words but I have friend My name is and she just will not use the word She hates the word She will correct you She will say please it in my presence there is something beautiful about her just drawing that line And you know the argument is are women taking that Like you know people say boss bitch you know as a positive thing And I have to say as Like as I've gotten older I have found that word more I I because when really do think about what that word actually means it is so insulting and there's no empowerment in that word at all FRANZISKA: where ALEX: you know because you're basically being called a female And like that's just hard that guy don't there's nothing there's no connotation of that That's going to be positive where being promiscuous I don't know to call me a player. call me player Like so I feel like that could it doesn't I wouldn't Called me a bitch It would sting more but that just might be my own somebody called me a slide I would Like FRANZISKA: But it but it's sort of it's like owning your sexuality as well Right So if somebody calling you a slut a lot of times as women we're taught that we're not supposed to be sexual beings for some reason Right But in reality we're divine and we're beautiful And our bodies too right Our minds our bodies everything And and I think it's of an insult almost from from from men and other people who are like Oh like you're such a slut but I didn't And a lot of times it's their ego is bruised Right And and we can say know yeah I am So what or sure who cares and we can sort of brush that ALEX: Well actually I kind thought like in college and law school was I guess mean there's no way I was promiscuous I remember And I probably way too much thought to this which is why we shouldn't have to worry I shouldn't have to apologize for anything I want to do as long as my self-esteem and I'm okay That's so again this was all done at you know between the ages of 16 and 28 probably And in thinking about that you know those 12 years I about How I have to own my own sexuality how there was a little bit of a power of being just slutty enough Like it made kind of you but you couldn't be too slutty And it was this kind of weird balance that I got to say Like I remember walking in law school like I remember sort of walking the balance of You know if there's one more person I have to keep it you know what because if I'm going to do this or uh a man I you know we were just having a physical relationship There was really nothing else to the relationship but I really at some point had to say to him I know you can be in the open about this But it's 1991 and I can't be in the open about this because I am going to know or be vulnerable What it is is I'm going to be vulnerable to gossip I didn't even know if I would be I didn't know if my friends would get it or not but I was like I'm going to be vulnerable to judgment And I'd just Why does have to even know what I'm doing And so and I and the thing was I was like the moment you tell somebody the and it was fine I mean that's Yeah now I you know but it's funny in past what I find when you talk history Like now at 50 when I look back at my slutty days I'm like Oh my slutty days FRANZISKA: they were so great ALEX: that is I don't know very many women Well it probably goes both ways Like there are women who wish they slept with less and there are women who are like I had FRANZISKA: Yeah think it just comes down to though like self-expression as well and just accepting who you are Right Because you know in college I had a lot of friends who were really promiscuous and it was you know at the time they were just having fun and it was just their life And now looking back they're like well I you know I don't know if I should have done that But you know they're okay with it because it's sort of allowed them to just live their life freely without what other thought or you know was just the whole let me just feel what I'm feeling ALEX: but I think women it's hard because women because we tend to be relational we're conditioned as relational is the idea is that sex and boys and everything And I am sort um a straight orientation here although I imagine it's the same for women no matter what the orientation but especially with with the male gaze that beauty is defined by the male gaze that And so are we doing it I think if you were 18 and you're saying I'm being really sexual because it's self-expression Or could really at 18 say or I'm doing because it's it's self-expression that gets validated And I you're when you look back you regret like wow I did a lot of that Not because it was pure self-expression it's because I really needed a lot of validation back then And maybe that wasn't Um Which it should affect your self esteem I think it makes you be become a grownup think that's that's the that's what's so complicated for women LENYA: Uh when I before I met Shane and single Um by the time I met Jane I had been single divorced for And um in that time I was dating capital D I would have like when I met Shane I would have a breakfast date have a lunch date I'd have a dinner I might have a walk around date Like there were times there were oftentimes where would have four or five dates you know Maybe four dates in a day Um I wasn't necessarily sleeping with all of them but if I chose would um I didn't end up as many as I would interestingly enough because here I am now I'm older and I would you would think I was felt freer but I actually felt more constrained And what was interesting was there there was this one guy who was so Older guy Um and which was interesting older guys just didn't like uh want someone that was in their forties It was the 30 year why I'm married to that were interested in me And so guy who was older than me and we we we had a little bit of a dating relationship for a while And he said the thing that makes you so enticing that makes you so popular on this website that I was on our time but it wasn't um you know it was like some dating Cupid thing I don't know He was like it's because you're old kids Um and you don't necessarily want to have a never said I did Um but do know what old And he said that made me And you know he said that that's why you're so popular on here because a lot of my other girlfriends that were single at that time but were younger than me like way younger than me We're successfully dating That's what they were The ones that coined FRANZISKA: the you're dating with a capital D you feel more constrained back then LENYA: I don't know I because I was older and um you know I guess also because I was older and not that I was competing with a younger but So of times when you know like uh I had some guy like he he was like um Send me some random hookup 2:00 AM text message not interested And he sends me this other like you know I sent him a message saying that this isn't right Well what I'm looking for or whatever not from you and my friend at the time was like Oh he's gonna he's gonna text you back I'm like no he's not going to text me back I basically told him you know this is Oh my God he's gonna text you back texted back But then when I saw him I saw him out because Sydney Australia is very small I saw that that's what I'm saying a lot especially FRANZISKA: word slut as LENYA: slander ALEX: That's LENYA: I was like Oh cause I ALEX: and blog wrote I wrote a a blog it's still up It's called car accidents and Cowboys And it is about my second adolescence when I was really 40 And it's just and I wrote it under a pseudonym like Tessa Dante and it was a really popular blog at the time because it really was just sort of this year this. So I felt a little empowered. Um but I was also 40 I would have been devastated by word in my and then then I think and then concept of slut-shaming, which isn't a term that we used, I used in the nineties. I don't know when the word came about, but I mean, are women using that against each other FRANZISKA: in their twenties? You know I I don't think so I mean not at least in my world I think the most times that I hear it is mostly when women that right Like Thinking about dating in LA A lot of times there's also another term That's like the Peter pan syndrome right Where you have a lot of men who don't want to settle down they want to play around forever And you have a lot of women who just want to settle down and be like Hey let's do this but you can't you know you can't settle down with them because it's do dating six people at one time But if you say no where you want to set boundaries or something then it's Oh you're a slut Or Hey that's shameful or Hey you're You're you are telling me no most often when I hear it at least just ALEX: I think what I find interesting is that I also think FRANZISKA: it has ALEX: So as a teacher I'm going to I'm going to talk about this So as a teacher I think teachers are um of slut-shaming or getting caught into it when we talk about because so like there was a student about 10 years ago and she would I mean she just we're called close to school and it's grad school So like I mean if you're wearing club CO's at 18 to to your class either either you're just getting in from the club and going to class or you're trying on one of your identities because that's do right an in between 18 And but you're frigging law school You're deciding you want to be part of this the establishment whatever You it was low cut really short And it was and I was distracted by her I have to say like were beautiful I mean you know and so I couldn't stop Like it was just but it was like it was really hard because somebody could come in with a Mohawk and I wouldn't give a shit So I really did like have this moment I was like I kind of wanted to talk to her and just say you know But then I was like have any right to cause that would know like it is like can't do it but then there's a situation where somebody didn't get this is this is hearsay but somebody didn't get a job And when the reference who really felt bad for the students said well why didn't she get job I said well she okay the interview but we do do a social media search and she's pretty much posing in her underwear you know in on Instagram And it's a public site and we just can't you know she's going to be a lawyer Like we just can't it And so the person like took it on her as mentor to go to the student and say You know this is really kind of why you didn't get the job Like you might want scrub your social media or at least make it Uber super private or have two different accounts Like but whatever it is like really and and your name and that student complained And and and said it was slut-shaming And it's that thing that this is that thing where I am very nervous about like a T if a teacher and it gets it gets and it's considered Is somehow like Oh wrong or whatever like you bite the hand that feeds you kind of thing And of course it didn't go anywhere because the professor was really trying to help And it really was actually really good advice And I just sort of always say it generally to people you know Change the spelling of name make close account use a different name you know scrub it like do whatever you need to do but make sure you know even I remember like just scrub the stupid pictures from high school that would embarrass should if you're not ashamed of you FRANZISKA: Yes ALEX: Like Mark private man have him in your own library but he doesn't need But I like there is a little bit of slut-shaming that goes on among women that way. And because everybody's always judging how one dresses, that's where I feel like women don't FRANZISKA: work together. especially on social media I think I think you're definitely right there especially because everyone wants to have their public image and they want to look great and they want to look unique and they want to show off and do different things think in that sense it's lot easier to To sort of slut-shaming somebody that you don't know or like an influencer or somebody who has more followers than you and say certain things or Oh you know look at this person look at you know how promiscuous their stuff looks Laina Do you see that definitely like in the industry LENYA: It depends. are and are certain people that that's what they're famous for and it's okay um but I mean it's getting Um because you're uh you know people and Um even the to a certain extent you know they put it out there and head like ALEX: is actually defer it LENYA: Um yes And and and you are probably right saying they're uh they they're they normalized this sort Behavior people know like You're not going to I every any um I don't regret what am I saying I don't do this but I'm saying any person that comes into me and says to look like a Kardashian Um you know I think they should regret saying that but the thing is if that's what they wanna look like if they want to deal do that then that's their business that you know what I mean Like there's not a sense of ALEX: Kardashians are beautiful I mean like they are That's not what but I am I do feel LENYA: but they dress a certain way and they behave a certain ALEX: like there's think it's it's whether it's in the energy or in the clothes but You know I think about Madonna and but it's sexy They dress So they're so sexy but there is empowerment all over it It is not sexual lies It's And I and I makes me uncomfortable in especially when I see young women doing it is they're confusing Sexy And there partially it's because they don't have the energy or the confidence to carry it off So it comes off sexualized even though on a different person come off sexy And I do think there is a difference There that I'm not I mean and this is just the beginning of this idea of this concept of conversation but I know why like I never I always felt when I look at beyond say I always feel like my God like power I look at Madonna like Madonna you know in the eighties like when she was at the forefront I look at share you know what I mean Like at the forefront Really fashion forward very revealing outfits but so and and and not about it Wasn't about getting a It wasn't about the male gaze I guess that's what it is What makes me uncomfortable about Jennifer Lopez to some degree and like how she dresses not so much now like now that she's over for like last 15 years I don't think this but in the early days Brittany Spears in the early days um even Carey it's it's about getting the male gaze and that and not there can't be anything wrong with don't want to say like you have a right if that's how you want to dress but is a difference like so when people are saying well I dress just like that I'm like well no you don't like that's not you do not look like a powerful woman Like when I see a woman in law school stripper stripper heels like four inch long because they saw it on TV And when Megan Markle was in suits and that's what she wore And so that's what they're wearing and they can barely walk in it So they're walking like a cult with their tits out and their butt like not like they're in charge right Because they're just not really fully into that posture and they can't carry A 10 pound briefcase which is what you're going to be carrying you know And that's not active you know that is dressing Like you're wanting the male and it's it's a failure of a look And I that I struggle with like cause I would never say anything because I do think it's an internal thing but that's LENYA: Sorry France Sorry France I wanted to ask you on this vein What did you what do you think of Megan The stallion and Cardi B Because they at this very moment in time you know about right Like they they they're they don't want the male gaze They're not they aren't dressing for that but they are still hyper And I love it I'm one of those that loves it I embrace this Like I totally much um like her she'll get up on her Instagram ass that's great ALEX: Well It's like but I think that's actually that is empowered in a way because that's pushing the envelope in a different way because that's where talking about black women power black women Body power And that's what's that's what they're saying Like they're saying motherfucker this is too And I'm done And so I think it's a little bit different of a message that it is hyper-sexualized I'm I think it's speaking to women I Like again it's like It's speaking I mean I'm sure men are getting off on it That's not what I'm that wop the WAP video like that like that was for women to be like Holy shit you look so hot I can look hot too It was totally body positive sexuality positive moment disgusting LENYA: Oh God so bad by so many different people mostly white FRANZISKA: women but Oh my God know but But it's all about rewriting that narrative Right And I think Hardy B is so awesome that the stallion is so awesome like Chloe right Like up and coming and during their early twenties I want to say if 18 19 I'm not quite sure but but you know now people are such aiming done because maybe video they're wearing revealing clothing But but I think it's so beautiful because they're taking the that's generally used derogatory and it's like Hey that's a bad thing And they're saying no I'm going to take it And I'm going to own it and I'm going to give him my own definition And I think it's going to take time for that to really happen for it to be sort of rewritten and his history and how people talk about it But it but it's sort of beautiful because it is empowering when you look at it Right You know going back to Madonna even when she had her music videos like I remember my parents and my grandparents being like look at her she's such a slut you know because it was like LENYA: The Oh my God The like the Virgin video Do you remember when that came out? we're from the when when a video was uh when when videos were about to drop on MTV it was like you stayed take Yes, lady Gaga was the the the end of that when her videos cause she productions Um but we is come from and I will never forget the like a version my mom was like Oh no FRANZISKA: no watching this ALEX: was fine with mother was fine with is where like you know and this is why it's also all in the eye of the beholder right Because my mother was fine that but she let me watch Would have because and not because it was two women living with a man she was like one it's two vapid Like she was like I'm not letting you watch a show where the joke is about the woman being an idiot and where just joke is kind of about Gigli tits And that was what she And she's like you're not watching it So could you know I could watch street blues which had violence in it but I could not watch this harmless show But my mother's like women are just ridiculously stupid and portrayed and I I find that fascinating you know in that sense I've actually I think I've gotten a little more conservative as I've gotten older with clothes just tired Like I see young people Trying so hard to and just looks like so much work And what I feel bad about is like they're 25 and they don't know how beautiful and sexy they are without even doing work Part of that is just You know it's that thing that age So Fran I'm telling you get naked run around the beach now because I always say like I should have run around naked FRANZISKA: There's there's there's something Empowering though in Right And in something where you're like let me wear this And even though I can't walk properly at least I feel empowered I feel legit Now if you're in your young twenties a lot of that is rooted in sort of trying to prove something Right Look at me I'm I look good and I'm prepared this I'm that But you know it's better than racing with the flat sometimes you know but ALEX: wear heels all the time I mean I wear heels and people would say Oh like the way you talk must've always wear pants since I was like no I love dresses I love fem I mean I love the color black Yeah I mean I'm feminine and I love really big I make Um but I also really buy shoes I can in I was like I find stiletto heel But also I just found it funny when I did move to this is an LA thing And it's back to the it's back to your blog What I love to hate about LA is that in San Francisco cause you had to walk everywhere People just all the time but it was like clunky Hills platform Hills because you have to walk right You just have to be able to walk You moved to LA And I sort of bought in when I first moved here and we were doing the whole Hollywood robot chickens thing And going to parties and stuff So I bought like really high heels and Eric would be well let's just walk like a park really far away and we'll walk And then we would have these huge fights Cause I was like but I worn heels We to valet like everybody in Los Angeles because I wore the shoes that I no I I think time LENYA: You are going to hit live on the blog the ALEX: why aren't you doing it Why don't you just do a soft FRANZISKA: launch? You know cause I'm wanting it to there's I know there's no thing as perfect but you ALEX: meant to be perfect Like so when you hear famous bloggers talking it's the idea of like you want to post lot not be precious it because otherwise you'll never do it So I mean granted I don't think it should just be a shit show but I don't think it's about it being perfect And you want to see you're also going to go through testing phase of like what lands and what doesn't land What do you need to do to action Like what kind is is you could always pull down You could always just down tomorrow but like what if you were to just email it to us So tomorrow I could do a blast on right And Len you can do a blast on Facebook We could both do a blast on Instagram and you just get some you get some traffic tomorrow and then you see what people LENYA: And we'll talk about it as well Once when the episode comes out I think you it I think for nothing if nothing else you should definitely have FRANZISKA: live by the time this episode comes out I'll push live but one or two I'll push it LENYA: our little break ALEX: episode FRANZISKA: our season exciting LENYA: Are we in season three ALEX: amazing this LENYA: Exactly I know it's been exactly a year since I saw you last and it's almost, almost ALEX: I'm excited for the semester to be over when I can devote way more it to the Um the is over I don't know my student have the craziness the craziness I'll be over It starts to add but like April 15th I really get to breathe But even by March 31st I'm breathing But even what I before you on I was telling Lenya the moot court competition that I'm coaching that's So like things very slowly I'm going to be stripping like two hours a week away from my 10 hours away my life start to come to normal I've been enjoying everything That's the that's so funny though It's like I mean I'm exhausted and yesterday I mean I did I did I did shower yesterday but it would been several days I just didn't Yesterday so busy I like came out here for a meeting and then all of a sudden it was eight o'clock and I hadn't brushed my teeth And I was like well this is bad FRANZISKA: but Wow but it crazy how you can just put to the side so you know you You're like Oh I haven't brushed my teeth I haven't washed my face or ALEX: true But I still felt fed you know I was tired of the day and and I was a little but I have to say like I was generally fed by everything I did because You know I think I helped a few students I think I listened to something exciting I think I gave good feedback I mean like I think you know you do all those things I'm really proud of myself So I was really proud of myself yesterday so yeah my can go like you know back in caveman days they didn't brush their teeth There was no fluoride Like I could make it a day FRANZISKA: survived it around naked ALEX: Around I'm not LENYA: Let's FRANZISKA: I do I do my apartment Cause empowering ALEX: backyard I walk around front LENYA: Yeah I mean I don't even care I think our I mean once I noticed that like I'm working out and all I'm wearing is a bra and these little shorts that basically butt cheeks What care if anybody sees me naked Because FRANZISKA: true ALEX: Like it's concept of humanity like there should be shame in the human body Like I Uh there great bath have female in uh Oh yes there is And create dynamic and miss all the cream bouts but there was this place called a Sunday in the mission in San Francisco It closed and it was this old row house or like Victorian and it was pay what you could afford So it was very diverse and had um just like a huge hot tub They had a cold plunge and then they had these wine barrels that had been made into saunas in the backyard and it would just be naked women and it's San Francisco So it's all shapes different all and ethnicities all different ages I mean I just remember like sitting Vividly the last time I was there like there was an 85 year old woman that I was sitting with and she was just so comfortable in her body And I remember being like I want to be like want to be I want to be that comfortable in my body at 83 Like that's what I want to do And I love Like and I miss that because there is that community of women that you get when you go to a bathhouse And when you go regularly that you do sort of feel your sense of what your body is normalizes because you much time at television and thinking this is what my body should look like FRANZISKA: looks like that They don't even look Right It's all right I mean I remember uh Jessica Simpson's uh biography last year some time And even at her when she was talking about music videos and the clothing that she had to wear like she didn't always feel comfortable with it you know or even free you know Yeah It's great because It's not funny but you know even with her and her relationship with Justin Timberlake they spoke about how when they broke up you know she was saying like Hey like I'm not you know I'm not like sexually active I'm this really great innocent girl who hasn't really done that much And Justin Timberlake's team sort of use that position to be like no she cheated on him and and look at her and absolutely and he sends has you know responded with apology from with Janet right With that scandal So it's so interesting how everything has sort of turned into twisted in different your body Right You're you're selling your, music you're selling your your body to get fame at the same time It's publicity I Yeah. ALEX: been an amazing for LENYA: thank reaching out and and FRANZISKA: fan our fan Yay Thank you ALEX: All right Well Thank you for We'll

Other Episodes

Episode cover

Episode 47

December 15, 2021

Having that Race Conversation at Holiday Dinner

It’s the final episode of the season and the year! Lenya and Alex have some holiday stories to tell, and they are good ones!   Lenya went to her white neighbor’s house for Thanksgiving dinner where the topic of race and police violence came up. Lenya spoke out about policing injustice, and was met with, well, the reaction you probably expect but also can not believe. What’s great though is that this story has a very happy ending.   Less happy are two more stories of police interacting with Lenya and Alex at points in their lives, and how the police took things too far, and how their skin color affected how each of them acted and felt.   Be sure to stay subscribed for when we return we'll check in on New Year's resolutions, and make some new ones for the coming year. Also, email us if you want to be on the show, or know someone who has a story to tell about race and womanhood.   --   Please **rate and review** this podcast if you enjoyed it; reviews greatly help new listeners see this podcast is worth their time. You can find Women Bridging the Gap on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/women-bridging-the-gap/id1521503012) and [Podchaser](https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/women-bridging-the-gap-1304390).   **We want to hear from you!** Let us know how you’re speaking about these issues with your friends.  **Let us know what topics you want to hear!**   Don’t join the [Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/665585734389981). We’re probably going to end it and move to TikTok.   Email us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])   You can find us at: [WomenBridgingtheGap.com](https://womenbridgingthegap.com)    Or on Instagram: * Find Lenya at: [@Lenya_goddess_the_one](https://www.instagram.com/lenya_goddess_the_one) ...

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00:39:57

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Episode 29

April 14, 2021

In Conversation with Author Jen Dalton on Bullying, Writing, and Volunteering in Haiti

Long time friend Jen Dalton joins Alexandra and Lenya to discuss writing, where to get your news, bullying, and so much more. Jen is an author of a YA novel called [“Of Butterflies & Bullies”](https://www.butterfliesbullies.com/) available now on Amazon. Jen tells the story of how she wrote a novel about being bullied in school so that other kids getting bullied could have something to read and see that they are not alone, and they are not broken. There is also a deep discussion on the humanitarian crisis in Haiti, the struggles of White saviorism versus helping fellow humans, and how [Hearthstone Village](https://www.hearthstonevillageukiah.org/) is getting girls in Haiti to not only finish high school, but to go to college, too! Haiti has one of the lowest rates of girls in school, and a girls education is the greatest tool to get a community out of poverty. Jenny Dalton (you can call her Jen too) is an author, facilitator, coach, healer and polymath. She’s an ENFT, Sagittarius, Manifesting Generator. Her work in the world flows from facilitating healthier local food systems and fundraising for [an orphanage in Haiti](https://www.hearthstonevillageukiah.org/), to talking about her recently published book [“Of Butterflies & Bullies”](https://www.butterfliesbullies.com/) – a Judy Blume inspired story about her experience being bullied in 5th grade. She’s also starting what she calls the Better Friends Club which will create a space for grown women to heal from their own childhood bullying. And, Jenny is excited that she recently became a Kind Campaign ambassador which means she will be facilitating school assemblies to empower younger girls to talk about their own bullying experiences. As a woman who devours learning opportunities and reads voraciously, she leans towards ...

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01:29:36

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Episode 11

October 14, 2020

Race And Tarot

Continuing the exploration of racism in everyday things, Alexandra and Lenya discuss tarot, where tarot came from, what it means to use tarot, and descriptions of different types of cards, decks, and crystals. Below you'll find links to all the different tarot decks and cards discussed in the episode. Do you have a favorite tarot card deck? How does it speak to you? What's your main purpose using tarot cards? Do you ever think about the origin or path tarot has taken to get to you? Join the [Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/665585734389981) or use any of the contact methods below to reach out and let us know your tarot journey. -- Links: * [Lupita Nyongo](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Sulwe/Lupita-Nyongo/9781534425361) * [Racism and Formula 1 Racing](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.watch-drivers-unite-in-fight-against-racism-in-new-film.2hBGtpECEHM9ZJUBt9sTNO.html) * [Sir Patrick Stewart's wife](https://www.sunnyozell.com/) * [Sir Patrick Stewart Domestic Violence The Guardian article](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/nov/27/patrick-stewart-domestic-violence) * [Shows Chewing Gum, Black Earth Rising and I May Destroy you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaela_Coel) * [Effie's Paper](https://effiespaper.com/) * [Lenya's favorite crystal shop](https://www.etsy.com/shop/CrystalAndCraft?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=878180517) * [Tarot podcast](https://www.wildlytarot.com/) * [Star Trek](https://www.startrek.com/shows) * [Alexandra's Blog](https://alexandraditalia.wordpress.com/2016/06/10/the-tweener-bout-whos-the-hottie/) * [I May Destroy you, Insecure, Lovecraft Country](https://www.hbo.com/series) * [Girlfriends](https://www.netflix.com/title/70157416) Tarot Cards we mention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider-Waite_tarot_deck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth_tarot_deck https://www.thewildunknown.com/collections/shop-the-magic https://www.etsy.com/listing/760013451/canes-arcanae-the-dog-tarot-deck-in?ref=shop_home_active_5&frs=1 https://www.taroteca-studio.com/Tarot-Decks/Regular-Edition-Decks/The-Dark-Mansion-Tarot-deck-Regular-Version-3RD..-Edition-Black-edges-blue-reverse-of-cards-clouds- https://lightseerstarot.com/ https://www.lisasterle.com/mwt https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/blackgoldlenormand/the-black-gold-lenormand https://www.energymuse.com/deck http://www.robinscottart.com/projects/the-urban-tarot/ -- Please **rate and review** this podcast if you enjoyed it; it greatly helps new listeners see this podcast is worth their time. You can find Women Bridging the Gap on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/women-bridging-the-gap/id1521503012) and [Podchaser](https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/women-bridging-the-gap-1304390). **We want to hear from you!** Let us know how you’re speaking about these issues with your friends. **Let us know what topics you want to hear!** Join the [Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/665585734389981) Email us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) You can find us at: [WomenBridgingtheGap.com](https://womenbridgingthegap.com) Or on Instagram: * Find Lenya at: [@Lenya_ goddess_ the_one](https://www.instagram.com/lenya_goddess_the_one/) * And Alexandra at: [@a_xandra17](https://www.instagram.com/a_xandra17) and [@thewritingleap](https://www.instagram.com/thewritingleap) * And the show is at: [@women_bridging_the_gap](https://www.instagram.com/women_bridging_the_gap/) This podcast was edited by Brendan Hutchins from Podcast Advocate. Go to [PodcastAdvocate.Network](http://PodcastAdvocate.Network) or find him on [Twitter @PodcastAdvocate](https://twitter.com/podcastadvocate) to learn more. ...

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00:45:50