Episode 55

September 21, 2023

00:41:18

What Doing The Work Feels Like

What Doing The Work Feels Like
Women Bridging the Gap
What Doing The Work Feels Like
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Show Notes

Alexandra and Lenya discuss the balances of both doing work, and doing the work.

First work/life balance is addressed, and how we’re also facing hustle culture. Behaviors from this capitalistic pressure can be seen in the students in Alexandra’s classroom.

And both describe how they have been using social media to engage and distance themselves from what they need to.

--

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This podcast was edited by Brendan Hutchins from Podcast Advocate. Email him at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]).

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View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

Lenya: [00:00:00] There's this thing at our job, right? There's three, three of us ladies. And now it's complete that every single person that works there has some customer, that's got a crush on them. Alexandra: Really well, Lenya: Yeah. Alexandra: How'd this come about? Lenya: my boss has this guy that comes in all the time. We always laugh. We always tell her, oh, your boyfriend called he's coming. Right. and he, he spends a lot of money with her, so he's a good customer, but like, you could tell that he, I don't know, I, she doesn't see it, but I see it. Right. You know, that kind of thing. Then the guy that works for us has this older lady, this older black lady that comes in and like late, the last time she came in, she full on, just said to him, I'm going to such and such concert. Do you wanna come with me? he was so uncomfortable. And the thing is he was gonna go to the concert and decided not to go Alexandra: Was he gonna go just to be polite. Lenya: No, no. He was gonna go to the concert anyway. He had tickets. Alexandra: Oh, oh, oh, oh, [00:01:00] okay. Lenya: He, no, this woman is like older than me Alexandra: Oh my Lenya: and this kid is like a kid. I'm gonna have to start, like, she makes him so uncomfortable that the next time she comes in, I'm gonna have to say something, but and she doesn't spend money. So that's the other thing. Right. So then, Alexandra: So what are you gonna say? Lenya: I, I'm not a hundred percent sure. Alexandra: I mean, what do you say? Ex because this isn't like an employee or employee situation where it's bad. Lenya: Yeah, but he's uncomfortable. Alexandra: Yeah, no, I totally agree. It's horrible. Lenya: So I think what I'm gonna say to the woman is that we appreciate your business and thank you very much for coming in because she actually never spends any money. Right. So, yeah, we appreciate you coming in, but it is highly inappropriate for you to be propositioning our employees and you're making him very uncomfortable. And if this continues that I'm going to have to ask you to not return to our store, I think Alexandra: [00:02:00] Oh, Lenya: to do it right. You don't think that's a good. Alexandra: yeah, I think not pro just not asking out our customers. Propositioning sounds so much. It's gonna put her on the defensive. I was just trying to be friends Lenya: really by asking him Alexandra: no, but if you just write, always describe the fact don't put a label on it. Lenya: Yeah. Okay. I'm not gonna name names, but you know, the person, my associate manager she has a guy that comes in and gives her food advice. Alexandra: Like Lenya: Right. And Alexandra: food advice, like how do like how'd that even come alright. Lenya: I don't know. They, like, if we're having a conversation about like, he's a customer, we're having a conversation about Armenian food and she knows a lot of Armenian food you know, places and they were talking about this kind of food and that kind of food. He's like, you know, he actually came to the store Late last week and was like, oh, did you go to the restaurant? And she's like, no, no, no, I'm going this weekend. I'm off this weekend. [00:03:00] He goes, oh, I'll come by next week. And you can tell me how it is. Alexandra: That's weird. . Lenya: And I looked at her and I was like, okay, the circle is complete. You now have someone that's got crushed on you. She's like, no, no. I'm like, girl, come on. Why would he Alexandra: so, well, I mean, you know what? It's like people are back in person, people aren't masked, people are looking to reconnect, Lenya: Oh, we're all masked. Alexandra: oh, you're still all masked. Lenya: We're all masked. Yeah, because people are still catching COVID in the Alexandra: it, yeah. It's it's true. Lenya: So we're all masked, but it was just funny. And then the guy, I have two guys, like there's this one guy that comes in all the time. He has purchased with me in the past, but he doesn't really need anything. Right. And he's married. He purchased the last thing he purchased. He purchased for his wife and he's. And when I say he has a crush, I don't think Alexandra: I get it. I there's crushing crushes. I totally get. Lenya: Right. But he's like, Hey, how was your trip? Cuz he knew I was going to new Orleans on the, on the sunset limited, like though a lot of my customers know because it's kind [00:04:00] of like a way for me to connect with them about how to pack and things. So I talked to him about my trips and he was like, how was your trip and all of that. But he would come into the store just for that coming to the mall, just for that. And then there's another guy that just buys stuff all the time. He just comes in, talks to me for like an hour and buys like thousands of dollars worth other things. And I'm like, and he asked me once you know, was I married and would I want to go with him? Cuz he goes like everywhere. And I was like, I'm sorry, I'm married. Alexandra: Wow. Well, I guess this is like plagues of retail work, right? That you get like these crushes and stuff. This seems Lenya: I mean, it's very normal. It ha it happened like at lo Jane too. Alexandra: That's so funny. Lenya: so yeah, like it's funny, but we now have all have one it's so funny. Alexandra: That's Lenya: think I'm going back to new Orleans Alexandra: when, Lenya: for my birthday. I think I'm gonna go from the ninth to the to the 14th. And I Alexandra: by yourself, Lenya: no, my brother's gonna come Alexandra: when. Lenya: and we're gonna get matching tattoos. Alexandra: [00:05:00] Wait a minute matching tattoos of what? Lenya: so new Orleans is like my spiritual home, so I wanna get like the Florida leaf and then have NOLA NOLA underneath. And then , when I go to Paris next year with my friend I will get the Eiffel tower Alexandra: Okay. Lenya: and then that's it. My two like little spiritual homes. Alexandra: I love that idea. Lenya: Yeah, it'll be fun. I think I can't wait. Like I haven't gone down vacation with my brother before, so it'll be fun. I think it'll be like, we'll turn it up a little, you know, Alexandra: No, exactly. It's always fun. Traveling with a sibling. I haven't traveled with my sister in a really long time. Well, I guess I was in Italy with her, but that doesn't doesn't count. It was like the whole family. It wasn't like just the two of us, like on a trip, but. When we did Ecuador, it was AMA we had an amazing time. It was an amazing trip together. it was, it was funny because, you know, you definitely find out how you're the same and how you're different. Do you know what I mean? And that was the trip where, I had my backpack, she had a back, she had to buy a backpack for that trip and stuff and, [00:06:00] and she brought. I think we were gone for a month. And so she brought 30 days of underwear and I'm like, dude, you can do laundry. And so she basically like left underwear in each place. We stayed to lessen the load of her pack, Lenya: Oh, my God. Alexandra: like a little tiny gift. Lenya: People travel right. Alexandra: it was like back. I mean like now the travel industry is such an, you know, I mean, this was a long time ago. So again, I had, we were splitting some of the things and again, it was all done over the phone, over email and stuff. And so I was like, you know, bring a thing to do laundry with, but she brought like a big thing of Woolite rather than a little packet of Woolite or something. And so I was like, oh, like we can't it's too heavy. I was like, you can't have that. So she like that first day she like left. Like I [00:07:00] just remember it was like arrived and and that was even a whole ordeal. Cause we didn't have a place to stay and it was over midnight and the hostel where I thought we were going, the, the cab driver couldn't find. And so I really was like, do we just find the Hyatt, you know, and stay in a hotel. And I didn't have I back then my sister and I did not have neither of us had. Money. So it was like, that would be emergency money, but the cab driver said and this is all happening in Spanish. The cab driver says I know a place. And my sister's like, no. And I was like, okay. And so he like takes us to a place he knows. And it ended up being a perfectly lovely like room in a host. Maybe it was a host. Maybe it was a guest house. I don't know. But, you know, we paid the equivalent of, I think $40 and. Stayed the night and it was perfectly clean. And, but we left the gifts that we left this person. Because my, I was, [00:08:00] I was like, Candace, how would you carry all this shit for a month? And then it was like, and then I just remember though it was like right before we like went into the rain forest because my sister would wear makeup every day. Like not a full face of makeup or anything. She was never that way. But she would put on like the little, little bit of this, a little bit of that. And she would, you know, always braid her hair really nice. And I looked like a lunatic because I was like, I'm so happy. I'm not gonna really shower that much. I'm never gonna brush my hair. I'm like a happy person. And they're pictures of like me looking like a crazy person and my sister all like neat, you know, and cute. And. But she would go outside, like in these little tiny hippie towns. And she's I'm not among my people cuz she's nobody like even like among the travelers, like nobody was wearing any kind of eyeliner or mascara or makeup and you know, this was, she was in her twenties back then, but so sh [00:09:00] cuz now she's I don't wear makeup and I was like, but back then she's wait, I can't, what will I do? It was, it was a great trip though, because even for spite all those differences, you're with your sister, do you know what I mean? And so, and the funny thing is, is that I am so shy and such a people pleaser, but Candace is such a master shopper, even though she didn't speak a word of Spanish, she has a better ear than I do. And in the marketplace, she would be able to. Talk with the vendors and ha all she had no problem where I would just like fan out my money and be like, I don't care. Like what you want. Like Lenya: Oh, Alexandra: oh, we were a good pair. So I think you guys will have a good time. Lenya: I know you've inspired me. So I'm gonna do a few bits and pieces here and there. Bits and pieces. I. Alexandra: That's it's really good. And I love new Orleans. I've been actually thinking like [00:10:00] my nephew would really like going to Tula. Like I've sort of imagined that as it's a great school. It's diverse. It's it's in a city. He wants heat, he'll have heat. So. Lenya: oh, you should take him for like a little visit. Alexandra: I know I'm gonna talk to my sister, my sister about it. I'm gonna talk to my sister about it. Although I don't know is abortion legal in Louisiana? No, probably he can't go. Yeah. So he can't go nobody under the like only, only people over the age of menopause can go to Louisiana. Lenya: me Alexandra: Right? I know I don't have a uterus. I can go to Lenya: Yeah, you're good. I don't have a, well, I have a uterus, but it doesn't work, so it's fine. Oh, man. That's since sad. That is so sad, but I mean, it's the south it's so funny because like every time I go, like I wanna stay, but then things like, and then I have conversations with people like [00:11:00] this and I'm like, eh, Alexandra: my, I have a, I have another friend and it's her spiritual city too. Oh, do you know Jen Dalton? She's been on the show. So she goes and spends like two or three months there at a time and rents like a house and just does her freelance work. And she's, she's made it work politically in her mind, how it works. And we have friends who live and work down there. I mean, you know, people are people, there are good people down there. You wanna support the small businesses and stuff. I mean, that's what you have to, you have to think local Lenya: Yes. Alexandra: and not think, you know, People in charge. Lenya: we're gonna rent a, an apartment this time. I'm gonna stay like, you know, for the four days. And, and we're renting an apartment in an area that I really wanted to visit like a real resident, but unfortunately kind of hipster. I don't know if that, like, maybe that just kind of is better for me. I kind of like it, but we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. But that's what I'm gonna do in a like next month[00:12:00] Alexandra: That's so exciting, such a good way to celebrate your birthday. It's such a good way to do it Lenya: Yeah. Alexandra: experiences are everything. Lenya: So what did you do this weekend? Labor day weekend. Alexandra: I all day to day I labored. Lenya: That's all. What. Alexandra: I know, but I You know, I met with students, I had office hours, right before this, I met with students, you know, I'm teaching women the log on this semester, which is yay. So I have some women doing really interesting topics. And maybe a few of them will wanna come on the podcast to talk about their topics as it, as it comes. Lenya: Would be great. Alexandra: it's really, it's really fascinating. What people are talking about. We have two men in the class they're brave souls. One of them is so funny. He, he was like, my wife told me just to be quiet and listen but I'm, I'm really excited about the class. So I did that. And then I'm reviewing papers cuz that's what I do. And, and trying not to feel overworked. I'm [00:13:00] trying really hard, not to feel overworked. Lenya: that's a challenge for every day Alexandra: Yeah, well, it's the American challenge, right? It's everybody's always talking about work life balance and. and then there's hustle culture, you know, so there's work life balance. And then we're like this hustle culture where everybody's gotta be hustling and you gotta be doing this and everybody's gotta be doing everything on social media to make sure they have platforms. And it's so much, and I do feel overwhelmed. All the time, you know, and it's, but through no fault of the job at this point, it's really just, life is a little overwhelming in the sense of all the new have tos and just trying to take 25 year olds through it, like understanding that, say you have, we have 10 resources available at the law school. So many students now think they have to take advantage of all 10 resources cuz of ster culture. And I'm like, but if you do that, then there's no time to think. I mean, you have to actually, what resource do you need? That's actually gonna really help [00:14:00] you. And then lean in really spend some time thinking about things. It's just, everybody's so busy life hacking to get the box. checked off. I don't really feel like anyone's thinking. And I think I have to include myself in that. So I'm really trying, you know, to sort of set some boundaries and, I won't be able to make everybody happy by setting the boundaries and trying to then be okay with that. You know, is that understanding that. I'm really trying not to check Southwest or email every like at least one day a week, like at least one day where I'm like no emails where if it's an emergency, you could text me. You know what I mean? If there's some emergency that I'm not aware of, that I need to answer, you can text me or call me, but no email checking and so trying to set some boundaries up But we'll see, it's just, I do feel like sort of coming back from COVID, a lot of people are looking for connection too. So it's hard because you [00:15:00] want the connection and you, and you still have the work. And, you know, we're starting to assess all the damage done by the pandemic. So then it's like, how do we make up for all that stuff too? And not it's like September it's September 5th. And I'm like, is it may yet like, I'm like, I've been back, I've really been back doing this like less than a month and I'm exhausted already. Cuz the burnout is real. So it's that stuff's hard, you know, but Lenya: Well, it's hard Alexandra: so. Lenya: you're a, like being able to say no to people, like, see, I don't have that problem. And I, I realized I realized now where everybody thinks I'm a bitch, cuz I've just got no problem saying no, I'm not doing that. I. Alexandra: Yeah. You know, it's so funny. I had lunch with a friend, a mutual friend, you know, and she actually said to me No, you have really, you're okay with boundaries. And I, I wanna be like, I think I've set good boundaries with certain people, but not with others. Do you know what I mean? It really is always [00:16:00] gonna depend. yeah, I mean, I think you not being a people pleaser and being a woman, confuses people. Do you know what I mean? Cuz Lenya: but, and being a Alexandra: of assumptions about women. What? Lenya: And being a black woman. Alexandra: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Lenya: So they it, it goes from the assumption of that. I should actually be open to everything to everyone. And then when I say no, then it's the trope of, oh, well then she's that angry black bitch. You know what I Alexandra: Yeah, no, I think that's totally true. I think I confused people because I'm so direct, you know, I get called harsh a lot, you know, but I was like, that's just mean I'm, I'm a very direct speaker and I speak with a lot of confidence. So people assume I'm not a people pleaser, but actually I'm conflict avoidant. And a bit of a people pleaser, but it kind of depends on the conflict and it depends on the person Lenya: Yeah. Alexandra: cuz also it's so on nuance to say you're one way all the time I was like in one group of people, I'm gonna people please. And another group of [00:17:00] people I will be no, like I'll be all about the boundary. So it, it really, it depends. but I'm also like realizing I'm not as extroverted as I used to be. And so I need, I need more downtime, but it's also, I'm extroverted in my own way. I've always been, do you know what I mean? I've always preferred small groups of people to really large groups of people. I hate small talk. if you put me in a group of certain kinds of people, I'm gonna enjoy it and it's gonna be great. And if you put me in another group, like talking about what work is we were talking about this on Saturday. Like, Do you enjoy being in a workplace or not? And like, do you like water cooler conversation or not? And it's some people really like water cooler conversation because it adds texture to the day it makes it's the social fabric and some people hate it. And I'm, I'm mostly in the, I hate it category and [00:18:00] people are gonna listen to this and say, well, now I'm never gonna say hello to you work But the idea is you know, When I run into somebody at work, sometimes I really do enjoy that person's conversation. I'm always gonna be polite and it's fine to see it, but I am thinking I don't get that time back now. I gotta spend 10 more minutes at the job and I wanna go home. Like I never understood the point of those in the kitchen conversations and how it adds to one's life. Like for me, it, it only makes it further from my social. And I liked my social life. Some people think that that adds. Lenya: Well, I'm, I, it depends with what, what the topic is, right? Like, you know, so we at work because we are, we sponsor McLaren, the team, right? There's every time. Well, they look to me for this information, but they wanna know about formula one. So I'm happy to have like a little conversation, but then there's like, I don't wanna [00:19:00] hear my the, the guy who's like our little part-timer. I don't wanna hear his romance stuff. Cuz the guy is like, He's just, he's a serial monogamist, right. That has like no boundaries with his, with his partners. And like, he goes from zero to a hundred in like three weeks. And I'm like, dude, I don't wanna have to continue to have this conversation with you. Every freaking girlfriend we've gone through three already. And I've only known you for six months, right? Alexandra: You should record it and say, record the conversation. Say, play the recording. Lenya: Yes, actually, you know what? I might do that, but it's like, dude, I've known you for six months. you know, like, but you know what I mean? We can talk about all kinds of things that are like water cooler conversations when things aren't busy and lately for this month, we have just had the worst boring ass month where nobody comes in. I, I mean, this is gonna be off topic for a minute, but we had a day where on like, and [00:20:00] normally like an average day, we have 131 people maybe walking and out of the store, that's kind of normal. We had a day where we had 12. Alexandra: Wow. Lenya: So like, you know, we're just sitting there. There's only so much you can clean. There's like when you work retail, there's only so much, you can like make phone calls, you can make to other people emails. And, and I'm just like, wow. So we be spent the whole day just kind of Alexandra: Well, that kind of makes sense to me like that is like where you have a job where you have to be in one place and then you have to stay a certain amount of time for me. I just have to stay until I get the work done. And so for me sometimes like having a, a water cooler conversation is preventing me from finishing my work that I sometimes don't enjoy. And then it's just hard because you're right. Sometimes it's really enjoyable, but sometimes it isn't but I have a long laundry list of things. I, I don't enjoy talking about. really, unless I know you well, if [00:21:00] I know a person well, and like I've met their kids, I am gonna care about oh, like their kids, but I don't actually care about the girl scout cookies, please don't bring them like 40% of Americans are overweight. Don't bring me your sugar cookies to. Please. I don't want to actually talk about like your kids, like events you know, or, or little Minu, the minutia. Tell me the big stuff, you know, give me the big stuff. Give me the highlights. If I've met the kids and I'm engaged in them growing up, I can know more I care, but yeah, there's like a shitload of stuff. That I just don't care about. I don't care about talking about the weather. I don't actually care about talking about traffic. I don't, you know what I mean? All stuff that LA people can waste 20 minutes on, and I'm like, I'm 20 CLO, 20 minutes closer to death now. And I have to stay at school longer. Like I, none of that interests me. Lenya: See, [00:22:00] this is when those conversations about our vaginas would be so much more important Alexandra: Absolutely. Could you imagine if I just dropped in a line? Well, let's actually spend this 20 minutes instead of talking about traffic, actually talk about our vaginas. Lenya: Yes. Can we just talk about that? Alexandra: just, let's talk about menopause for a minute. That would interesting. That would interest me because I'm, I'd rather have an in I'd rather have a real conversation then a past the time conversation always. Lenya: So funnily enough there's a woman on TikTok that I follow who has started I guess she started menopause and she's been very honest about it and it has been the best journey to watch, right? Like, you know, she's just very upfront, you know, and she started calling her lady bits, crim. Right. That's it? That is it for me. It is. Now that is what it's called CRI and then. Alexandra: I have so many things to say [00:23:00] about that. Like, why do we have to use euphemisms? Why do we, why, why do we have to name it? It keeps the stigma. It is, it is, it is continuing the stigma that we can't use. The word vagina. Lenya: Okay. So there's a little bit of there's the, but there are some problems Alexandra: it's funny. It's Lenya: no, but there are problems like on social media you can get flagged or banned right? on television. I remember reading in Shonda Ryan's book that on television when she wanted to cuz they used the word penis lot of times. But when she went to go and write a scene where they were talking about vaginas, she used the word vagina and they told her no that it was inappropriate. So that's why the, the term the JJ came Alexandra: Right. I remember that, but that is why we actually need to change that. Do you know what I mean? But yes, until it's changed, we, I guess we need to still use Lenya: well, I use the word vagina, like in a response video to [00:24:00] her and I, it got flagged and taken down for inappropriate language Alexandra: ridiculous, but she can call it. And what does she call it? Lenya: Herre. So I was like, I went to go to get some panties the other day and I post this on, on, on Instagram. I was like, so are these panties like worthy of Myre LA? I don't know. like, that's it. I'm just gonna be like, I don't know. Is it worthy of the KRE? That's the new litmus test for everything Alexandra: All right, I get it. Lenya: that is, Alexandra: I mean, I'm not going to use that, Lenya: No, of course not. That's not your thing, but it was hilarious, but I, I mean, it was so great of her to start talking about this, cuz it started a whole conversation on TikTok with women that I had never seen before talking about menopause. And so now hashtag menopause is actually trending. Alexandra: I love that. So many the [00:25:00] thing that so many women are going through it, and they don't even, it's so weird. Like everybody. Know, certain things. Do you know what I mean about it, but it's amazing how many people don't talk about the changes in flow that happen beforehand. Do you know, like the hemorrhaging and nobody talks about the anxiety levels? No one talks about this stuff. Lenya: They don't even talk about the dryness, right? Like if you're so sexually active, the dryness and the thing is like, then after the fact, like, so like now postmenopause one of the questions cuz a like, obviously, so now I'm talking about this on TikTok as well. Right. And one of the questions I got asked was now that you're postmenopause does the, does that, do you get the, the, the fluid back? And I was like, only because I drink two liters of water, a. Only because I drink two liters of water a day, because before I started drinking as much water, everything was still incredibly dry, [00:26:00] but I'm not sexually active as much as I would love to be. But you know what I mean? Alexandra: no, I totally got it. Lenya: like, it's crazy. It's crazy. We just don't talk about those things. And of course, you know, they don't wanna talk about women being over 50 and being sexually active. Alexandra: No, because. Lenya: The bottom line is we are sexually active at times. Maybe not as much as when we were in the twenties, but we're sexually active. We probably even look better now than we did when we were in our Alexandra: Oh, absolutely. Lenya: And so of course, Alexandra: Well, our peak is in our, what our sexual peak is sometime in our, sometime in our forties. So of course it makes sense that of course we would still be like sexually active and sexually interested post post. Lenya: Menopause. Alexandra: menopause. Lenya: So, Alexandra: gonna be D. Lenya: it's just such a weird to me. It's just such a weird thing that we just never talk about it. And I love, love, love that it is now a whole conversation happening amongst [00:27:00] women. And they're calling like, there's like a whole thing called the aunties where they're trying to educate younger women, not just about menopause, but about their vaginal. Full stop. Like, you know what, why don't you start thinking about it now at 25, and then you won't have to have these conversations where everything's like a mess at 50. Alexandra: No, I love that. I absolutely love it. Do you find it's do you find when you're doing all this, that it's breaking race lines or is it all along race lines? Lenya: all the videos that I'm seeing are black women, but you know, like I I've had to protect myself a little bit lately. So I, I don't really get onto other sides of TikTok that much. I've been very. Purposeful with my four you page, cuz yeah, like the, I mean there's just little things that have been happening and then this is on all social media. Right. And I mean, this is why a lot of people feel like they can't be on social media. And I have just made it so I've curated what I. C doesn't bother me, but there was like this post, [00:28:00] right. And the thing is sometimes little things going, but there was this post, this woman that, and it, and it's a, a big trend that's happening right now with a lot of white women wearing braids. Right. And not just braids, I'm talking like box braids and corn rows and being very. Vocal about their displeasure that black women are telling them that this is not appropriate. Right. You know, that it's, it's racially insensitive sometimes a lot of times Alexandra: A lot of times. I mean, I just can't even imagine who would do this in today's world right now. We're just not there. Oh Lenya: girl, Alex, if I could just tell you how many young girls are doing this and how and how they are. So They, they they're so insensitive. And, and I don't wanna say that they're racist, but they're cuz most of them actually have black boyfriends. But then, you know, you can still be racist and have a partner of this, but you know what I mean? Like I don't wanna Alexandra: Yes. No. Exactly. Exactly. Lenya: and they're, and they're adamant about their privilege and entitlement to be [00:29:00] able to do such a thing and they love to call it just hair and then. When I, as a black person or anyone as a black person explains to them, well, if it's just hair, then why do we have to have a law that allows us to wear our hair the way it grows out of our head, go through Congress, like, you know, the crown act. And a lot of my friends like that, I would talk to didn't even know that this was a thing. How do you not know that the crown act is a thing? It it's in the news, you know, are you curating your news so that you don't hear about these types of things, but anyway, yeah. So like I've had to really, so that really upset me. And then there was this other, thi this other stupid woman, like, you know saying that Beyonce is not a queen that she's just old and that we're, we're. Obsessed cuz she's black and black people only like black people. And, and I had to look, I had, and, and she was being stitched and duetted so much that I, I just, Alexandra: Oh, my God. That is just, that is Lenya: So I'm. Yeah, I know. But even like, I mean, I, [00:30:00] I feel like that crossed that crossed racial barriers because there were white women that were giving it to her too. You know what I mean? Like who, what, in what planet is Beyonce, not a queen. Like, are you in an, in a parallel universe? Like. What anyway. So, but you know, like, so I have curated my, my four you page going back to the original. So I don't see a lot of white women that are, are putting their hands into this kind of conversation. I wish they would. I would love cuz it's a woman thing. It's not a black thing. It's not a Alexandra: Yeah, it is, well, this is that, you know, this is the, this is the thing, right? Where. What you're saying is fascinating to me because I mean, everybody needs to right. Protect themselves because like we're living in a very anguished time, you know, when we think about Lenya: Yeah. Alexandra: just post, post Floyd Lenya: Mm-hmm Alexandra: pandemic, climate change post ops world, right. You know, everything, the. [00:31:00] The fact elections, right? We're just living in an era like the, the rolling back of voting rights. There's, there's so much to be anxious about. And so curating your, your backyard, your social life to whatever. So you don't have to deal with microaggressions or absolute aggression is absolutely. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Because I have to say similarly I don't, I'm not on TikTok, but I have actually started unfollowing some very left things that I might even give money to. Do, you know what I mean? That I might give money to, but in my Insta feed where I want to see Art joy. Like I go there to rest. I don't go there necessarily to, that's not where I get my news or whatever. because I'm tired of people yelling at white people. I'm like at some point I get a little tired. Like I I'm an [00:32:00] ally, I don't need to be educated constantly. And I also just don't need to read about how shitty I am. So. I have actually unfollowed a lot of people that I would maybe buy their books. I would maybe read their guest essays on the news, but I have unfollowed the chastising because it's too much for me. And that's that's me call it my white fragility. But I'm like, don't wanna engage. Like I don't wanna feel that way. I don't wanna be made to feel bad when you know, right or wrong. I just don't wanna feel. Lenya: Yeah. But you know, I get that. I get that. And, and there is, there is this thing about wanting to, when you go on social media, just, it, it fits your decompression time, which is what it is for me. Not wanting to have to engage in that kind of content. Right. There are people who go to social media just to engage in that kind of content because they want to do whatever, if that's where they find their learning and stuff like that. That's fine too. You [00:33:00] know what I mean? You probably find your way of learning those things in other places, It doesn't matter how you get the work done. As long as you do the work, that's the way. And I think social media doesn't always have to be teaching. I've stopped following so many social justice warriors on TikTok. Like my TikTok is, is curated about mostly just black joy. It's dancing, it's music, it's fun. It's, it's this black woman who forages for flowers that she, that she tells you how you can eat and make into cakes and things. And I mean like her TikTok is the best TikTok ever. Alexandra: I also follow tons of like black creators, do you know, in that sense, because then it's I'm really working on passing the mic. I'm also really working on supporting black businesses or black creators in one way or another. And not always just gaining in the pundit conversation, which more and more just sounds like screaming MI. You know, at each other. And I was like, okay I can get my new when it's time [00:34:00] for me to engage in that discussion, I'll go to a different place. But I'm I think there's a way to be an ally and not constantly just be in education mode or be in, in being school. But there's a lot of shaming going on right now that I'm just not interested in anymore. That I don't feel like I need to be shamed into things. I, I just, I'm not interested in that emotional. Way of doing things from any base, from any left base. And so I tend to not follow that. I just don't think it's persuasive and at least maybe not to me, if somebody, if somebody finds that it it's persuasive. Although I guess I would argue that it's never persuasive. Lenya: Oh, but it is for some people like I've watched a Alexandra: shamed into believing something. Lenya: No, no, no one was shamed. They made a comment that was inappropriate and, or maybe slightly, you know, like needing some, just needing some education and their, their [00:35:00] comment was used as a teachable moment, not being shamed, but just being Alexandra: Well, that's different. That's totally different. And that's like not, and that's not what I'm talking about. That's actually just using whatever comes up in the moment of in regular conversation. As a moment to teach something and that's exactly how it should be going. So for instance, if a white person follows a black creator and makes an insensitive comment in the comments, and then the black creator uses it as a teaching moment and then the white person is responsive saying, wow, I never thought of it. Thank you for that moment. That's absolutely the way society moves forward. Like that, is it what I'm talking Lenya: that's what I found. Alexandra: what that's ex, but that's exactly not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is like creators now, white or black or anyone doesn't matter because there are lots of poses, you know what I mean, white poses saying, here's how you need to be. And so they're saying like, if you do this, [00:36:00] you suck, you know, the little If you do this, you suck and I'm no longer interested in that kind of conversation. I think it had its time. Do you know what I mean when we were all like, sort of like in that moment, that was the teachable moment of saying here are all the things you've never thought about that you need to think about. And I think at least for me, I'm past that moment and now I'm in a different moment and I'm no longer following that conversation cuz I kind of find that conversation to be it alienates me rather than brings me in. I actually just had a moment with a student where the student called me out on saying something, it had nothing to do with race. It had something to do with weight. And I said something, I was making fun of my former self. Like I was making fun of my former self and I said, and I, and I think I said, oh, when I was studying for the bar you know, I chose to smoke cigarettes rather than gain weight, like something around there. And I, and the [00:37:00] student called me out on it and said, totally insulting to, to, to heavy people. And I wrote, I totally own that. I'm totally sorry. And I get how you, you took it that way. No, excuse. I did mean, and I didn't say a, but like my intent was to be making fun of my former self because of that very exact issue. Right. And, and mocking my former self in a sense of getting you to remember, to not take, you know, this, this point very seriously, this point of law, very seriously. And. I said, but I'm happy to talk more about it. Obviously I need to either work on my delivery, make it clear, or just really not say it all together, which is, I think what I'll do in the future. I'm very, I'm so AP I'm so sorry. And then, you know, the person emailed me back and said, I totally get it. And it was done. Do you know what I mean? And that's how you move forward in the world. You know what I mean? Like it's also cuz I feel like we both learned from it. Do you know what I mean? Because you know, I learned that. [00:38:00] Okay. That's going to, even though the intent was harmless and the intent actually might have been positive, you know, had, had wanted to have a positive impact. It actually didn't because the words that stuck weren't Word the whole story. Right? They heard they, they triggered, it was a trigger. They heard the one word and it, the rest was a trigger and the rest they didn't hear. And we, we live in that era and I have to be way more sensitive to it. And I need to just not say it and not double down on the context because it just doesn't matter. That's not where we are in the world right now. And I was so willing to apologize and, and I do believe it. I will never say that again in another class where I teach that point. But I also hope the student learned, do you know what I mean? That one, her approach was fantastic. Her bravery was fantastic. And that culturally and not culturally generationally, cuz this is a generational moment. Not a cultural moment. A generational moment is that, oh, like there is a whole [00:39:00] story. It's not just the trigger word. And you know, I'm hoping that this woman will be stronger going into the next moment. Lenya: Mm-hmm Alexandra: You know what I mean? And that we both work towards a happy middle where, you know what I mean? Cuz that's get that's healing. That's the whole healing I'm unlearning, I'm unlearning the great unlearning and she's and she's learning. And that's generational and that's beautiful. I mean, at least you can hope that Lenya: The only social social justice warrior is that I follow do those kinds of like let's teach in the moment type of situation. I don't really follow the you're an asshole. If you do this type of thing. I actually unfollowed a lot, lot of people who do that. I, I don't, I dunno. I, I, I, I guess I. In the same way as you, I just don't think calling someone an asshole. I mean, though, I, I guess I've done it, you know? I mean, Alexandra: Well, there's a time to call somebody an asshole and not to, and then there's a time to also be like, what is this? What is this forum for? Do you know what I mean? [00:40:00] And how do I wanna curate my forum? Do you know what I mean? Even in that sense that. Time in and whatever the, the moment is. And it it's, and it's just different. Let's do Lenya: God. Alexandra: Oh my Lenya: postal is such a shit show. Alexandra: This has ended up being an amazing conversation. And so with this tell everybody where to find us it because we're not actually on social media all that much, but where can they Lenya: I'm Leia underscores styles at both TikTok and Instagram. And we have women bridging the gap. On Instagram we have a website. And we have a lot of comments on the website, it's women bridging the gap.com and you can definitely, always reach us there. And we also are on Facebook and Alex, Alexandra: You can find me under Alexander to tell you can find me anywhere from base back to, to anywhere just like on a random street corner, but you can find me on Instagram that way I don't actually have the handle. [00:41:00] Right. Ready? So yeah, but otherwise you can always find us through the website. I'm just everywhere. I'm in the ether. All right, everybody have a good day. Lenya: Bye.

Other Episodes

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Episode 47

December 15, 2021

Having that Race Conversation at Holiday Dinner

It’s the final episode of the season and the year! Lenya and Alex have some holiday stories to tell, and they are good ones!   Lenya went to her white neighbor’s house for Thanksgiving dinner where the topic of race and police violence came up. Lenya spoke out about policing injustice, and was met with, well, the reaction you probably expect but also can not believe. What’s great though is that this story has a very happy ending.   Less happy are two more stories of police interacting with Lenya and Alex at points in their lives, and how the police took things too far, and how their skin color affected how each of them acted and felt.   Be sure to stay subscribed for when we return we'll check in on New Year's resolutions, and make some new ones for the coming year. Also, email us if you want to be on the show, or know someone who has a story to tell about race and womanhood.   --   Please **rate and review** this podcast if you enjoyed it; reviews greatly help new listeners see this podcast is worth their time. You can find Women Bridging the Gap on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/women-bridging-the-gap/id1521503012) and [Podchaser](https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/women-bridging-the-gap-1304390).   **We want to hear from you!** Let us know how you’re speaking about these issues with your friends.  **Let us know what topics you want to hear!**   Don’t join the [Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/665585734389981). We’re probably going to end it and move to TikTok.   Email us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])   You can find us at: [WomenBridgingtheGap.com](https://womenbridgingthegap.com)    Or on Instagram: * Find Lenya at: [@Lenya_goddess_the_one](https://www.instagram.com/lenya_goddess_the_one) ...

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00:39:57

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Episode 16

November 18, 2020

Class and Race

This week we have a big topic to discuss, how class and race intersect. How do White and Black people think of class systems differently? Join us as we discuss the different behaviours and traits that people in working, middle, and upper classes do in different circumstances. Listen to learn why Lenya really didn’t want to do this episode, and keep listening to hear why she’s really glad it happened anyway. Both Alexandra and Lenya get personal and deep, opening up and showing their true selves. A great listen, this episode will make you think about your place and where you want to be. This is the chart that Lenya and Alexandra are examing: https://www.wordonthestreets.net/Articles/481670/Hidden_rules_among.aspx -- Please **rate and review** this podcast if you enjoyed it; reviews greatly help new listeners see this podcast is worth their time. You can find Women Bridging the Gap on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/women-bridging-the-gap/id1521503012) and [Podchaser](https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/women-bridging-the-gap-1304390). **We want to hear from you!** Let us know how you’re speaking about these issues with your friends. **Let us know what topics you want to hear!** Join the [Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/665585734389981) Email us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) You can find us at: [WomenBridgingtheGap.com](https://womenbridgingthegap.com) Or on Instagram: * Find Lenya at: [@Lenya_goddess_the_one](https://www.instagram.com/lenya_goddess_the_one) * And Alexandra at: [@a_xandra17](https://www.instagram.com/a_xandra17) and [@thewritingleap](https://www.instagram.com/thewritingleap) * And the show is at: [@women_bridging_the_gap](https://www.instagram.com/women_bridging_the_gap/) This podcast was edited by Brendan Hutchins from Podcast Advocate. Go to [PodcastAdvocate.Network](http://PodcastAdvocate.Network) or find him on [Twitter @PodcastAdvocate](https://twitter.com/podcastadvocate) to learn more. ...

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01:09:40

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Episode 39

September 15, 2021

Kids and Capitalism with Brendan Hutchins

Producer of the show Brendan Hutchins is back to talk about getting his vasectomy reversed, having babies in this current state of the world, and just an update on what's going on in his world.   Very quickly the topic turns to capitalism, as it often does, and we discuss the various things companies do because of the capitalistic incentives that drive all of their actions. There is also good conversation about charging your worth, and Lenya delighted by revealing she recently asked for a raise after starting The No Budget Babe course.   We shift over to discussing green energy and electric vehicles. Alexandra expresses she would feel guilty driving a fancy car, and Brendan counters that he just preordered a fancy electric car. Well, fancy and practical. There is a nice conversation about Tesla and never mentioned the CEO.   Brendan is getting married, so the ladies ask all about the planning and what's going to happen, and share horror stories of weddings they’ve attended.   --   Please **rate and review** this podcast if you enjoyed it; reviews greatly help new listeners see this podcast is worth their time. You can find Women Bridging the Gap on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/women-bridging-the-gap/id1521503012) and [Podchaser](https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/women-bridging-the-gap-1304390).   **We want to hear from you!** Let us know how you’re speaking about these issues with your friends.  **Let us know what topics you want to hear!**   Join the [Facebook Group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/665585734389981)   Email us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])   You can find us at: [WomenBridgingtheGap.com](https://womenbridgingthegap.com)    Or on Instagram: * Find Lenya at: [@Lenya_goddess_the_one](https://www.instagram.com/lenya_goddess_the_one) * And Alexandra at: [@a_xandra17](https://www.instagram.com/a_xandra17) and [@thewritingleap](https://www.instagram.com/thewritingleap) * And the show is at: [@women_bridging_the_gap](https://www.instagram.com/women_bridging_the_gap/)   ...

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01:00:46